Lakes and ponds

[Zaphod]

I just think that in the good old days the closure made the start of the fishing season a bit special.

It must be my age, i'm getting all nostalgic and stuff.

Sure I will be fishing through, in fact I am going tomorrow (Thursday)to see if the Tench have woken up yet, as I have a job that gives me time off in the week so I can go when it is nice and quiet, bliss.

[Mat Hillman]

Peter Martin:

Well in my Home county only Basildon Council open their park lakes in the close season, thanks I suspect because of the efforts of Micky Toomer who runs the fishing on the lakes,  great fishing in the middle of Basildon that local people can walk to and it doesn't cost as much as a commercial.  Well done Basildon.

Hi Peter,

 

I fished Glouster Park for the first time last week and managed a resounding blank ! any chance of a few hints to get me started ;-)

 

I'd really like to have a go for some of the tench I'm told are in there

 

Cheers

 

Mat

[RUDD]

Dunk

 

I work Monday to Friday 9 - 5.30

I have a 15 month old daughter who goes to bed 7 - 7.30pm

 

When I get home I like to spend this small precious time with her.

Then I can start on household jobs that need doing or during the summer months have an evening fishing.

I get weekends off but then have more bigger household jobs to do and like to get at least half of one of the two days to fish. Usually a saturday morning as my fishing partners have other commitments on Sundays.

Most of my shopping is done on a Sunday morning due to the above and as we also like to take our

daughter to the shops as she loves looking at all these news things.

I have also found that not many people do their shopping first thing Sunday.

 

The closed season on stillwaters should stay open.

There is not much natural food in stillwaters at this time of year until the water starts to warm up, we feed the fish during the winter and taking this bait away from them could cause problems.

[Dunk Fairley]

Rudd,

 

don't get me wrong. I'm not crticising those who fish stillwaters during the closed season. It's up to them. I'd be pretty small minded to condemn fishing on stillwaters, when it was shown that in MANY cases, the closed season removal had no adverse effect on the fish.

 

However, the research at the time showed that in SOME cases, there was good reason to retain the closed season to allow fish to breed. When the stillwater closed season was scrapped, the INTENTION was, that water controllers should impose a closed season, which would actually suit the times when their fish bred. A lot of water owners do this, but some do not. Most councils do, as they are not set up the same way as the profit making enterprises.

 

In some cases, it doesn't really matter to the water controllers, if the fish breed or not. They are commercially interested. This means that they charge for the fishing on their waters. If the fish stocks dwindle, they can afford to go out and buy more and more. That way, more fish get caught and more tickets are sold. They then make more money.

 

There is a different scenario on rivers. On rivers, fish may breed in small sections of the river. If these small sections of river are opened up for fishing and the fish are disturbed unduly, the entire stock of the river can be affected. On rivers, it's not just a matter of throwing more fish in, if stocks are low. The whole river has to be taken into consideration.

 

River species such as Dace, Grayling and Barbel (Chub as well, but to a lesser extent I believe), are a lot more succeptible to disturbance when spawning. It is easy to destroy entire egg batches, just by disturbing a few pebbles. If this happens, the whole river can be affected, not just the bit owned by the person who allows the angling, when the fish are spawning.

 

Other complications arise. The people who own the angling rights on rivers, are called Riparian owners. Riparian ownership extends to half way across the river. That's why you often find rivers making up boundries between properties. Now, if I own one side of the river and someone else owns the other, what happens if I don't want fishing on my half (and impose a closed season), but the owner of the other side wants it on his? Will the anglers cast half way across? No, I doubt it. Therefore, I would be within my rights, to seek a prosecution against those who cast into my half of the river. That prosecution, could be for theft. I do know a few Riparian owners who, aware of discussions such as this, WOULD be prepared to take out such prosecutions.

 

So, it's not as simple as a lot of people think.

[Steve Burke]

I agree with the closed season on rivers for the reasons that Dunk has mentioned. For that matter I think the closed season should be extended to all canals as well, unless they're not connected to a river.

 

However I'm totally against a compulsory closed season on stillwaters. Instead I strongly believe it should be up to the individual fishery manager as it is now, rather than be decided nationally.

 

Some stillwaters would undoubtedly benefit from a closed season; on others it makes no difference at all.

 

For instance my own lakes at Wingham are run as a nature reserve. As an experiment I changed one lake to a winter closed season whilst keeping the other to a conventional mid-March to mid-June break. This change had no measurable impact whatsoever on either the fish or the wildlife. I therefore now allow fishing all year. However bear in mind that Wingham is very little fished compared with other waters.

 

Some anglers want a break and like the romance of an opening day. To them I say fine - but please don't seek to impose your restrictions on other people! There are plenty of waters around that still have a closed season, including of course all rivers. Mind you some of these are fished for trout at this time, so may still be pressured.

 

I'm therefore happy with the present arrangement (except for canals), and consider it a workable compromise. However I'd fight to retain my freedom to choose whether or when to open my stillwaters at Wingham.

 

What annoys me most of all though is those anglers who refuse to fish in England during the closed season, but then go coarse fishing in Ireland or France!

[Peter M]

Matt I have sent you a private message regarding your question.

[Newt]

Dunk Fairley:

...

River species such as Dace, Grayling and Barbel (Chub as well, but to a lesser extent I believe), are a lot more succeptible to disturbance when spawning. It is easy to destroy entire egg batches, just by disturbing a few pebbles. If this happens, the whole river can be affected, not just the bit owned by the person who allows the angling, when the fish are spawning.

....

I completely agree that fishing where fish are spawning can affect those fish.

 

I do wonder though about the overall effect on the fishery. A female can lay a huge number of eggs. If all eggs laid by all the females hatched and thrived, I'd think you'd have instant overpopulation.

 

So maybe fewer fish successfully laying eggs just means a higher percentage of those that hatch elsewhere will survive and grow to adulthood.

 

Has this whole issue been carefully (read scientifically and systematically) studied or is what you posted just the "conventional wisdom"? I ask because I have seen the same sort of thing posted/written in the US about the practice of fishing beds for largemouth bass during the spawn. When they finally (only recently) got around to doing a solid study, it turned out the effect on a specific bed was huge but the overall effect on the fishery population was negligible.

 

[ 19. March 2003, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: Newt ]

[poledark]

Dunk, where did you get the idea that "the intention" was for fishery owners to impose there own close season?

 

The recomendation was that there was no liklyhood of any adverse effect in abolishing the close season and it was therefor recommended that it be scrapped.

 

Up to the present time I think you will find that that advice was well founded.

 

I do have a strong suspicion that many on our councils are against letting the local kids do a bit of fishing when the weather starts to warm up a bit.

 

One of the more bizarre effects was when many of those in favour of keeping the close season decided to salve their consciences and only shortened it a bit, like shutting down at the end of March and reopening on the first of June ( just in time for the carp to spawn)

 

 

Den

 

[ 19. March 2003, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: poledark ]

[Peter M]

Personally I don't care, i have a good job and a good car and can eaisly afford the expesivce day ticket of a commercial pool, plus the petrol to drive out to the country. But what of those not so lucky, Kids and the elderly? keep the close season on rivers but oppose, with the same intensity, the closure of lakes and ponds which are owned by the local council.

[Dunk Fairley]

Steve,

 

as you know, I'm in full agreement with you over the stillwater closed season on your waters. If I gave the impression that I wasn't, then that's my fault and I apologise. Also, Den, yes you are right. Perhaps my phrasiology wasn't quite correct.

 

What I SHOULD have said was that the intention was that water owners should impose thier own closed season, if they found that their waters benefitted from it. I too was surprised when some of those in favour of retaining it, just shortened it. But it's possible that they've just adapted it to suit their own waters/fish, the way it should be done. I know of at least one water, which does not have a "rigid" closed season at all. When the fish are "at it", the bailiffs, who are very, very good on this water, close off the spawning sites. They have been known to shut up to 50% of the lake, when the fish don't seem to be able to decide where to lay their eggs.

 

I also agree with you Steve, when you say that it should be left up to the managers/owners of each stillwater fishery to decide. It's very reassuring though, to see so many standing up for the river closed season.

 

We have discussed the closed season at length, within SAA ranks at various meetings. What we've found is that there is almost unanimous support for it's retention. There was one abstention on the last vote I took part in, but only because that person did not fish rivers to any great extent, so therefore felt he was not best placed to vote on the subject. There has been not one vote for it's scrapping.

 

Now, on to Newt's point. Undoubtably, if ALL the eggs from a single spawning were to survive, you'd get a lot, or even too many stunted fish. But, think on the basis that when fish spawn in the wild, only one out of a thousand fry will make it to maturity (I think that's about an accurate figure, isn't it?). A lot of eggs are eaten by other fish, crayfish and even birds. Some are just infertile. When the fish hatch, they are predated upon, by pretty much the same things that eat the eggs, but there are also a lot of "Bugs" that eat baby fish. Also, when fry, they are especially susceptible to temperature change or pollution. So really, the fish have a tough enough time reproducing. Anything we can do to enable them to do it in peace, can only help.

 

I REALLY am sorry about the length of some of my postings on the closed season subject, but it IS one of my passions.