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Another thing I learned is that perch will die if your keepnet is in a depth of water significantly different from the depth they were caught in, they can't adjust to the change in water pressure as quickly as other fish.

I didn't know that....very interesting, you learn something every day.


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Gaffer youre talking rubbish!

Barbless hooks come out of the fish so much easier! Causing the fish a lot less stress. Also it makes a lot less penetration wounds on the fish. Ask yourself from personal experience if you would like to have an injection from the doctors with a barbed or barbless needle? have you ever had a barbed hook through your finger?

Sometimes the hook has to be threaded through the other way!!

P.s the only hook in my box is a barbless hook!!!!


[ 21. February 2003, 04:25 AM: Message edited by: monkeyboy ]

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Monkeyboy, that was rather the point of Gaffers post. Barbless hooks penetrate much easier than do barbed, and thus, tend to go deeper with less force required. For this reason, they are extremely dangerous to fish which vital organs near the surface in the throat(such as perch and pike). While careless removal of any hook can cause unneeded damage to the fish, a barbed hook is much more likely to cause a deeper wound than is a barbed hook.

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Several points emerge from this debate, first it would seem to me that the question of penetration is important to the fish's welfare.

Now I have used barbed and non barbed hooks and size for size, and pattern for pattern I can not detect any difference in penetration.


Also size for size and pattern for pattern I have found that barbless do not cause more damage, and that where they do score is in the easy removal. It is an indisputable fact that barbless cause less damage on removal.

All other ideas regarding damage and penetration are just opinions and cannot be proved one way or the other,testing on chamois leather etc can in no way represent the conditions that occur when playing a fish.

When I land any fish I find the hook has penetrated up to the bend, this happens whether barbed or barbless, and this happens without any exceptions.

I have no axe to grind, no opinion to defend, no reputation to preserve, I try to deal in facts and after many years and catching many hundreds of fish using both types of hook, I would advise using barbless, if only because of the ease of removal.


I have quite a few matchfishing friends and their experiences match mine, and some of these guys are catching 100lb bags of fish ranging from a few ounces up to several pounds every week.


As for damaging Perch I have not a lot of experience with big ones, but do admit to having caused the death of quite a number of little ones due to deep hooking. This was in the days before barbless were even considered. Some of this damage was caused by the difficulty of removing the barbed hook from the throat. Maybe if I had used barbless this damage would have been lessened.

Needless to say, I do not specifically target perch due to the number of them which, despite my efforts, get themselves deep hooked.


I will sum up by saying that I have never seen any evidence that barbless penetrate deeper, but I have, ON MANY OCCASIONS, especially when barbel fishing, been thankful that I was using barbless and was able to remove the hook without the need of forceps.



"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

for all you Spodders. https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic

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Gaffer youre talking rubbish!

Thanks! :rolleyes:


In my experience of nearly 10 years of solid carping, and in my opinion, barbless hooks move during the 'playing' of the fish causing damage. Once a barbed hook is in, it's in and doesn't move.



Barbless hooks come out of the fish so much easier!

Exactly!!!! :rolleyes:


Hook points being what they are are tapered. They go in and without a barb (or micro-barb) will come out on their own. During the 'playing' of the fish a hook may come out slightly (if the line goes slack at any time) only to go back in at maybe a slightly different angle, thus making the wound bigger (wider).


Before too many folks get carried away with a "tis, tisn't, tis, tisn't" argument we need to look at the many factors involved. Such as...


The anglers 'playing' technique.

The size and pattern of hook.

The size of fish

How the fish was hooked

Etc, etc.


Two different carp fisheries near me have differing rules. One has a barbless only rule, the other doesn't. The fishery with the barbless only rule has carp with appauling mouth damage in it, whereas the other doesn't. Fact!

In talking with friends that fish all over the country they have experienced the same.


Even Mr Ian Welch, head of RMC Angling, has been quoted as saying that barbless hooks have the potential to cause more damage whilst 'playing' a fish, whereas there is more potential of a barbed hook causing damage through poor handling whilst unhooking. I actually hold Mr Welch in high regard.


So Monkeyboy I'm not the only one that talks rubbish am I?! :rolleyes:

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Gaffer / Monkey boy


The reason that fishes mouths get damaged is that while playing a fish anglers move their rod all over the place.

You should try and keep your rod straight up and tilted forward at a slight angle.

The only time you need to move it is down, left or right parallel to the bank to guide a fish away from a snag.

You also need a tight line at all times.

When you move your rod about you create a slight slack line which loosens the hook.

It is a fact that barbed hooks stay in the same position better than barbless due to the barb.

If you play a fish correctly as above even a barbless hook will not move to much.


P.s when you hold a rod parallel to the water the fish comes to the surface.

The only time you want a fish on the surface is when you are going to land it.

A fish thrashing about on the surface only scares other fish and leads to a weak hook hold.



Different floats for different folks!


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Babar, if you don't want to use barbed hooks, try to get hold of some of the "pinched" hooks from Preston (I think they were made by Ashima). These have a bump on the point where the barb would be on an ordinary hook. The idea is the pinch stops the hook pulling out as easily, helps keep the bait on, and is easier to unhook than a barb.

If you can't get these easily I would try microbarbs or whisker barbs.

Pinched hooks are good for worm fishing as well - the bu$$ers can't wriggle off so easy.

Where's the 'ANY' key?

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Guest sslatter

I'm basically with Poledark on this one. I don't think that barbless hooks cause more damage than barbed. Quite the reverse. I think it's got more to do with the modern trend of heavy lines which are often too heavy for the situations in which they are used, in my opinion. This has led to the 'technique' of letting a fish thump around on the end of the line, without it being given any line, and 'bullying' the fish in. That's when the fishes mouths can tear, especially with larger fish. Clutches on reels are set to these higher breaking strains, and people don't seem to play fish off the gears like they used to. It's just hook 'em and haul 'em. I think that some of the celebrity anglers are to blame for this modern trend for heavy line and 'bullying' fish, judging from what I've seen on the TV, and I was heartened to read recently of Ian Heaps' reversal of this trend in going back to lighter breaking strains whilst fishing in carp matches. One of the great skills (actually playing a fish, tricking it into avoiding snags etc) is in danger of being lost to the influx of new anglers, who cannot be blamed themselves for this modern trend for heavy lines-they just don't know any better, because nobody is advocating otherwise. Apart from a few on this site, that is.

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I'm with Gaffer, in my personal experience Barbless hooks have caused far more damage during the fight than barbed because they DO slip.


If you're damaging fish removing microbarbed hooks then maybe you should be a bit more careful.

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