Eel Rigs/bait

[Dick Dastardly]

BUDGIE,

 

I've always known (at least thought) eels did not have a swim blatter. Digging around with the appropriate tool to unhook the eel is in the eel's best interest if that is true.

 

Also, although I don't know this one, type of steel in the hook would/will make a HUGE difference. Assuming the eels welfare is an issue(?). ALWAYS use a ferrous hook - always.

 

Phone

 

 

The problem is that the eels heart is near its throat (as indeed are a lot of species) and this can be damaged with a disgorger. I don't like leaving hooks in any fish (and that's my problem here) but a punctured heart is certain death. Hence all the effort to avoid deep hooking in the first place.

[Mark7]

I'm genuinely interested in this but fear that people may think I'm just trying to draw them on the subject for mischievous reasons.

 

I personally think that all the talk of cut lines and eels in sacks having regurgitated the hook the next morning is rubbish! So much so that I'm going to try and get permission to retain a few this year to actually see. However as Ive never retained eels over the years Ive fished for them I have to keep an open mind when others tell me different.

 

I love eels and fishing for them (well big ones any way!) but have done less and less over the years due to the problem of deep hooking and therefore (IMO) killing them. Ive tried several of the new "wonder rigs". Admittedly some such as "T-ing" the hook (hooking a length of stiff rig tube and positioning it so the hook looks like an anchor) does indeed help but I still get too many deep hooked eels for me to be happy. Bolt rigs despite being against all my traditional thoughts (I still use John Siddly rigs and CD rigs) does seem to help as well but as previously said I'm still not 100% happy.

 

I hope people will reply as my frustration is that many eel anglers (afraid I must say also NAC members) will often tell you what to do but once you get back to them asking for any help on the problems you have found with the methods (I would like to say suggested but cant) they have TOLD you then the drawbridge goes up and the heads buried firmly in the sand! So is there something I'm doing wrong? is there a way I can tweak these methods to make them work to an acceptable level (I say acceptable as I'm a realist) or is it simply that they like to preach/kid themselves that these things work 100% when they use them and my failings are simply because I'm not an NAC member! (incidentally like the PAC and a few other single species organisations that anyone can join without any test of competency!).Never encountered this deffensive attitude with the BEAC but then they were all in the real world! and only to pleased to help.

 

I hope I'm wrong and that some one has the balls to step up and debate this issue,hopefully pointing me in the right direction or simply fessing up!

 

When I first fished for eels I was concerned that deep hooking would cause fish deaths. My comments below are in no way intended as the right way to fish for eels: it’s just the way that suits me.

When I first eel fished, I too thought that the tales of regurgitated hooks were a thing of myth. In those days I used barbed size 2s and 4s. The third eel that I caught was deeply hooked: hook out of sight. I followed tradition and cut the wire as close to the jaws as possible and sacked the fish for weighing and photographing in the morning. The hook was in the bottom of sack when I removed the fish. I continued with large hooks for the first two seasons, and deep hooked some 15% of eels landed. On many occasions (around half) the hook would be regurgitated whilst the eel was sacked. Interestingly, smaller eels were more likely to be deep hooked. Most eels captured were, however, in excess of 4lbs. In season three I reduced the size of hook to a barbless raptor 7 or 8, irrespective of bait size, reduced the length of the hook link to a maximum of 4 inches, and hair rigged the baits off of the back of the hook, leaving all of the hook exposed. I began to use Dyson rigs almost exclusively, coupled with 3-4oz leads, braid and rollover indicators. If the bait is positioned at least 6 inches off bottom, and the eel rises from the free offerings on the bed of the lake to take the bait, then falls back to the lake bottom to continue feeding, it would seem that deep hooking is reduced. Also, with a correctly balanced Dyson rig, then any activity at the bait end is noticed at the rod, especially if using braid, Delkims and rollovers. I assume (and my personal experience, and that of other eel anglers seems to bear this out) that a traditional on bottom rig presents a bait in a manner that allows the eel to inspect and swallow a bait without giving immediate indication, especially if the fish moves toward the lead on picking up the bait. For this reason, I seldom use on bottom rigs, but always use Dyson rigs, usually with baits between 6 and 18 inches off bottom. I seldom experience traditional runs fishing like this. One or two bleeps on the indicator is the norm. An immediate strike usually connects with the eel. If the run is missed then a re-cast normally results in another take within the hour-I believe the eel continues to feed on the bed of dead maggots until it comes across my suspended bait again. I never fish more than 4 or 5 rod lengths out, and always with one bait within a foot of the bank, and this aids sensitivity. In 6 years of eel fishing I have experienced two fatalities, both involving eels that bled heavily on capture. As all fish are retained for many hours prior to unhooking and photographing, I am relatively sure that there have been few other casualties. I record all catches, and taking last year as an example, of 28 eels landed, 4 were deeply hooked, and only one did not regurgitate the hook in the sack (in fact, the lot had disappeared, so I can only assume it dislodged the hook and swallowed it all!). Most of these eels were of a reasonable size-five 4s, six 5s, two 6s and a 7. The year before 4 eels were deep hooked, and two did not regurgitate the hook in the sack. Again, they were mostly larger fish (ten 4s, ten 5s and three 6s). I am convinced that small, barbless hooks, braid, off bottom rigs and instant strikes help reduce deep hooking. Ultra sensitive bite indication is critical. As for deep hooked eels surviving, both Tesch and Moriarty provide much evidence, from dissected eels, of old injuries caused by fish hooks that have not affected the survival of the eel. In fact, Tesch quotes instances of partially occluded sections of gut containing hook injuries that have not prevented the eel thriving.

You mentioned the resistance issue: In the early days, on a “runs” waters when I was experiencing missed runs, I experimented with open bail arms and then engaging the bail arm, with baitrunner on, prior to striking. The eels continued to run on the baitrunner, and I still missed them! The change in resistance made no difference to the eel. I fish open bail arms, but good friends (and successful eel anglers) fish off the baitrunner. Personally, I believe that big eels feed very carefully, especially when they are fished for. I have caught many big eels on repeated “twitches” that I might once have dismissed as nuisance fish. I do not want to chance that elusive double dropping my bait because it feels a little resistance, so I fish open bail arms and low resistance. There are some interesting films on Youtube showing Irish eels feeding on free offerings-more correctly, they are not feeding, merely inspecting the bait, mouthing it and then ignoring it. I am convinced that many of the twitches that we attribute to nuisance fish are, in fact, eels checking out our baits. I investigate every bleep, feeling for movement on the braid-I have lost count of the fish hooked on the smallest tug!

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks Mark that's very interesting.A lot also agrees with what Ive found.

 

I started to rethink the whole resistance thing when one season whilst carp fishing we were all plagued with screaming runs (3 ozs semi fixed short hook link bolt rigs).In them days we used a light nylon hair rather that today's knot less knot set ups.The result of striking these screaming runs was either a broken hair or very occasionally a 3lb+ eel (often a wide headed one) It became quite obvious that the "broken hair" runs were smaller eels that had grabbed the boilly but not taken the hook in.The resulting strike just broke the light mono hair. The bigger eels that were hooked obviously had been able to take the lot in, The MAIN point however being that neither were put off by the 3 ozs lead. This was in the days when eel lore said free running was a must and open bail arms with Fairy tops were standard.

 

Latter even the carp anglers tactic of "foaming up" (pushing a cylinder of foam in the butt ring to trap the line and give steady resistance in these pre baitrunner days) became popular.

 

So as such Ive never really accepted that resistance (as long as its constant) is a problem,Strangely enough 9 out of 10 times I still set up to avoid it though! I suppose old habits die hard!

 

As for hooks I have allways used barbed as the deep penetration of singles has worried me.Possibly why Ive never seen or believed in the "regurgitating" issue. However now you have said about barbless (even though I will still have to try it to "see for myself") it certainly changes my views on the possible out come.

 

Ive stuck with standard length hook links on JS rigs but have allways used short ones on CD rigs. Maybe I should try short ones on JS rigs or just switch totally to CD's? Not sure but will be giving it a good go this spring. Unfortunately I'm limited to no fish baits on the water I'm fishing at present so dead maggot (learned through bream and tench fishing) as freebies with worm fished on the hook is my main attack.I tend to use two Dendrobaenas rather than one lob as I find this gives me a better hook up rate. Ive avoided maggot on the hook as even though there are no other small fish present the carp are a bit to keen on them! Also I worry that a small bait like this will be swallowed to quickly.That said I intend to try they this year on self hooking rigs as I have noticed that any I have caught on the same set up whilst tench fishing have all been lip hooked.

 

What are your views on "T-ing" any luck with it any suggestions? I ask as my past few seasons playing with it have been a bit mixed to say the least! I think this may be down to not using a big enough bit of tube and will experiment more this year....and definitely with the small barbless hooks you mention.

 

I'm hoping that just small changes like this will help me reduce deep hooking to an even greater degree and therefore bring it into my own levels of what is acceptable. Thanks for admitting that you still get the occasional deep one though.

[Dales]

Thanks Mark, very interesting stuff.

[Anderoo]

Thanks for that post, Mark - I don't fish for eels myself (usually try to avoid them ) but found that very interesting. They certainly are fascinating creatures.

[gozzer]

Thanks for that post, Mark - I don't fish for eels myself (usually try to avoid them ) but found that very interesting. They certainly are fascinating creatures.

 

I'll add my thanks to those above Mark.

I've not done a lot of (intentional) eel fishing, apart from a period about 20yrs ago, and that was with very limited success, with a top weight of just over 3 1/2 lb. I found your post very interesting, especially the part about how close in you fish. I wondered if you ever tried using a float rig when conditions allowed. I found that it was much more sensitive, at times too sensitive and you had to move the rod tip towards your float, or the bait was dropped when the fish felt resistance from the rod. I found that it was best in slow rivers, or fishing close in, to the side on a stillwater, and I got less deep hooked fish than fishing on the bottom. I'm not talking about a pike float, but I used a big avon, just big enough to support a bait and a 'tell tale' shot. It would also help with the suspended baits you mention. I realise that concentrating on a float for long periods at night is not as comfortable as listening for the bite alarm, but I always stayed awake during night sessions, and if I started to nod off, stopped fishing.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

John.

[Dave H]

I'll add my thanks to those above Mark.

I've not done a lot of (intentional) eel fishing, apart from a period about 20yrs ago, and that was with very limited success, with a top weight of just over 3 1/2 lb. I found your post very interesting, especially the part about how close in you fish. I wondered if you ever tried using a float rig when conditions allowed. I found that it was much more sensitive, at times too sensitive and you had to move the rod tip towards your float, or the bait was dropped when the fish felt resistance from the rod. I found that it was best in slow rivers, or fishing close in, to the side on a stillwater, and I got less deep hooked fish than fishing on the bottom. I'm not talking about a pike float, but I used a big avon, just big enough to support a bait and a 'tell tale' shot. It would also help with the suspended baits you mention. I realise that concentrating on a float for long periods at night is not as comfortable as listening for the bite alarm, but I always stayed awake during night sessions, and if I started to nod off, stopped fishing.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

John.

 

 

 

I too never sleep at night . I think the reason is simple i am just too excited as we all know that its the most likely time you are going to get a run. I am not saying i do not dose but i am in a chair close to the rods or if raining in the bivvy in the chair but you are not comfy so you don't dose for long.

float fishing in the dark though i find a bit too concentrating and i dose off. I rearely do a 48 hr session but if i do and it is a warm day i will sleep on the bedchair but right next to the rods.

[Phone]

All,

 

As reigning president of the "it's just a fish" sector I would like to invite you all to a therapy session.

 

Phone

[gozzer]

All,

 

As reigning president of the "it's just a fish" sector I would like to invite you all to a therapy session.

 

Phone

 

Would that be over coffee, with the 'blue rinse' ladies, Phone?

 

John.

[Mark7]

Thanks Mark that's very interesting.A lot also agrees with what Ive found.

 

I started to rethink the whole resistance thing when one season whilst carp fishing we were all plagued with screaming runs (3 ozs semi fixed short hook link bolt rigs).In them days we used a light nylon hair rather that today's knot less knot set ups.The result of striking these screaming runs was either a broken hair or very occasionally a 3lb+ eel (often a wide headed one) It became quite obvious that the "broken hair" runs were smaller eels that had grabbed the boilly but not taken the hook in.The resulting strike just broke the light mono hair. The bigger eels that were hooked obviously had been able to take the lot in, The MAIN point however being that neither were put off by the 3 ozs lead. This was in the days when eel lore said free running was a must and open bail arms with Fairy tops were standard.

 

Latter even the carp anglers tactic of "foaming up" (pushing a cylinder of foam in the butt ring to trap the line and give steady resistance in these pre baitrunner days) became popular.

 

So as such Ive never really accepted that resistance (as long as its constant) is a problem,Strangely enough 9 out of 10 times I still set up to avoid it though! I suppose old habits die hard!

 

As for hooks I have allways used barbed as the deep penetration of singles has worried me.Possibly why Ive never seen or believed in the "regurgitating" issue. However now you have said about barbless (even though I will still have to try it to "see for myself") it certainly changes my views on the possible out come.

 

Ive stuck with standard length hook links on JS rigs but have allways used short ones on CD rigs. Maybe I should try short ones on JS rigs or just switch totally to CD's? Not sure but will be giving it a good go this spring. Unfortunately I'm limited to no fish baits on the water I'm fishing at present so dead maggot (learned through bream and tench fishing) as freebies with worm fished on the hook is my main attack.I tend to use two Dendrobaenas rather than one lob as I find this gives me a better hook up rate. Ive avoided maggot on the hook as even though there are no other small fish present the carp are a bit to keen on them! Also I worry that a small bait like this will be swallowed to quickly.That said I intend to try they this year on self hooking rigs as I have noticed that any I have caught on the same set up whilst tench fishing have all been lip hooked.

 

What are your views on "T-ing" any luck with it any suggestions? I ask as my past few seasons playing with it have been a bit mixed to say the least! I think this may be down to not using a big enough bit of tube and will experiment more this year....and definitely with the small barbless hooks you mention.

 

I'm hoping that just small changes like this will help me reduce deep hooking to an even greater degree and therefore bring it into my own levels of what is acceptable. Thanks for admitting that you still get the occasional deep one though.

 

I have not used the "T" rig, as I decided that the size of the "T" would need to be substantial, certainly much larger than the hooks that I use, to prevent a decent eel swallowing the lot. I can see how it might work for smaller specimens, but how big would it need to be for, say, an 8 lb eel? Probably a couple of inches across. I would be interested to see if you can make it work effectively.

 

I have posted a couple of photos of my preferred hooking arrangement below. I have shortened trace lengths since these were taken, and also now thread half a big lob along the length of the wire when using the lobworm rig. I started doing this after a discussion around dropped runs, and the possibility of the eel detecting the wire. Mind you, the presence of the hook is more likely to put the eel off, so it's probably completely unnecessary. Makes me happy, though.