live baiting for perch

[tiddlertamer]

But suggest that someone might take the odd fish for the pot and there is uproar.

Dare to post a recipe, and the cry of indignation is deafening.

 

Complete and utter hypocrisy.

 

John.

 

Carp recipes anyone? Its a bit different from the normal chat about unhooking mats... you couldn't make it up...

[Emma two]

My comment which seems to have caused such upset, 'bashing the head in with a rock' was deliberatly put like that to illustrate how awful the sight of an ill prepared (priestless) angler looking around for a blunt instrument is, and liable to bring angling into disrepute far more than our 'in house' discussion. The reality is sometimes fish are killed, either for the table or as an act of mercy either way it should be done efficiantly. Is it that we are so keen to appease these 'antis' that we dare not even use the words 'fish' and 'dead' in the same sentence? Earlier this year I saw two men trying to kill a trout, now given that they had set out to catch fish to eat, it might have reasonably followed that they would have given some thought as to how they would do this. As it turned out they impotently alternated between hitting the fish with the butt of a fly rod, and hitting the rod with the fish!

 

The recipe given in response to a request.

 

'coarse fish' is a label imposed upon a group of species by humans, I can see no ethical reason why one should not eat these species. It appears to be a cuturally specific thing, we tend not to get upset in the same way over the killing and eating of fish which we have given different labels, specifically 'game' and 'sea' (although I do accept that adherants to those styles of angling increasingly 'catch and release' too).

 

Why is it so wrong to kill and eat a Perch? do those of you who clearly object to this practice equally berate someone who eats Haddock and chips? and if not why not?

 

The suggestion that those of us who eat some of what we catch do not 'respect' the fish is nonsense, think about the relationship between the plains Indians and the bison or the nomadic Lapps and the reindeer, the whole lifestyle and economy of those peoples revolved around the killing and eating of those species which were elevated to god like status. The 2 species which I afford the most 'respect', perch and brown trout are the ones which I am most likley to eat.

 

Common sense does need to be applied, it makes no sense to kill all the fish in a given water, as someone pointed out some fish may be re-captured. I think that the size, type of water and numbers of fish present (and thier potential to sustain their numbers) are important variables. however for me it's like this, almost all the Perch I catch nowadays come from the same water. It is almost 4 miles long and 3/4 of a mile wide. If in a session i see 2 other anglers then it was 'crowded day' on the lake . Over 90% of the Perch I catch are returned unharmed right away. The few i keep for the table are cleanly killed followed by my leaving an offering to the spirit of the land ( not all 'tree-huggers are 'antis'). I honestly don't belive that if I returned thse fish that i would ever be likley to see those individuals again, nor do I believe that I am inpacting negatively on either the quality or quantity of Perch in that lake. if one were to fish a small water with a limited number of fish then it would be irresponsible to kill them.

 

Perch and the odd trout are the only species which I take home. Everything else goes back including Salmon and migratory trout. I refrain from eating cows, pigs, sheep, poultry and farmed fish for what I belive are good ethical reasons. However its a highly personal thing, we all make or moral decisions, and because it's personal I don't take the moral high ground and go around lecturing people eating pork pies or steak dinners and in the same way I would thank those who feel that they are better placed to dictate what I should be eating then I am myself to mind their own business.

[tiddlertamer]

My comment which seems to have caused such upset, 'bashing the head in with a rock' was deliberatly put like that to illustrate how awful the sight of an ill prepared (priestless) angler looking around for a blunt instrument is, and liable to bring angling into disrepute far more than our 'in house' discussion. The reality is sometimes fish are killed, either for the table or as an act of mercy either way it should be done efficiantly. Is it that we are so keen to appease these 'antis' that we dare not even use the words 'fish' and 'dead' in the same sentence? Earlier this year I saw two men trying to kill a trout, now given that they had set out to catch fish to eat, it might have reasonably followed that they would have given some thought as to how they would do this. As it turned out they impotently alternated between hitting the fish with the butt of a fly rod, and hitting the rod with the fish!

 

The recipe given in response to a request.

 

'coarse fish' is a label imposed upon a group of species by humans, I can see no ethical reason why one should not eat these species. It appears to be a cuturally specific thing, we tend not to get upset in the same way over the killing and eating of fish which we have given different labels, specifically 'game' and 'sea' (although I do accept that adherants to those styles of angling increasingly 'catch and release' too).

 

Why is it so wrong to kill and eat a Perch? do those of you who clearly object to this practice equally berate someone who eats Haddock and chips? and if not why not?

 

The suggestion that those of us who eat some of what we catch do not 'respect' the fish is nonsense, think about the relationship between the plains Indians and the bison or the nomadic Lapps and the reindeer, the whole lifestyle and economy of those peoples revolved around the killing and eating of those species which were elevated to god like status. The 2 species which I afford the most 'respect', perch and brown trout are the ones which I am most likley to eat.

 

Common sense does need to be applied, it makes no sense to kill all the fish in a given water, as someone pointed out some fish may be re-captured. I think that the size, type of water and numbers of fish present (and thier potential to sustain their numbers) are important variables. however for me it's like this, almost all the Perch I catch nowadays come from the same water. It is almost 4 miles long and 3/4 of a mile wide. If in a session i see 2 other anglers then it was 'crowded day' on the lake . Over 90% of the Perch I catch are returned unharmed right away. The few i keep for the table are cleanly killed followed by my leaving an offering to the spirit of the land ( not all 'tree-huggers are 'antis'). I honestly don't belive that if I returned thse fish that i would ever be likley to see those individuals again, nor do I believe that I am inpacting negatively on either the quality or quantity of Perch in that lake. if one were to fish a small water with a limited number of fish then it would be irresponsible to kill them.

 

Perch and the odd trout are the only species which I take home. Everything else goes back including Salmon and migratory trout. I refrain from eating cows, pigs, sheep, poultry and farmed fish for what I belive are good ethical reasons. However its a highly personal thing, we all make or moral decisions, and because it's personal I don't take the moral high ground and go around lecturing people eating pork pies or steak dinners and in the same way I would thank those who feel that they are better placed to dictate what I should be eating then I am myself to mind their own business.

 

Respect for an interesting and heartfelt reply. Don't agree with all of it but appreciate some of the sentiments.

[gozzer]

Carp recipes anyone? Its a bit different from the normal chat about unhooking mats... you couldn't make it up...

 

You don't have to make anything up.

If you use the search facility then you will find recipes for many different fish on here, (and the cries of indignation when we've discussed this topic before).

 

John.

[Guest Rabbit]

The hypocrisy in angling (as I keep saying) never fails to amaze me.

 

It's OK to stock waters to naturally unsustainable levels, so long as it's makes the catching of fish easier!

 

It's OK to have these fish escape, (as they naturally will), with the obvious impact on the eco system of the other waters.

 

It's OK to constantly target a massive fish in a short stretch of water, hoping that it will weigh an ounce or two more than last time.

 

JIt's OK to stock fish to sizes that are unnatural to the water, just so that someone can Jlaim a 'record'.

 

It's OK to stock fish that will cross breed with the resident species and risk a whole strain die out.

 

(I could go on, but I think you get the message).

 

These examples are (I presume) thought of as beneficial to the fish. After all angling is such a caring pastime that we wouldn't do it just for our own benefit....would we?

 

But suggest that someone might take the odd fish for the pot , and there is uproar.

Dare to post a recipe, and the cry of indignation is deafening.

 

Complete and utter hypocrisy.

 

John.

 

John you should really move on from this outdated stance that 'I have a right to take on for the pot' what right the law of nature?, the hunting instinct that has to be satisfied by eating ones quarry?

What iS the point of killing a mature perch a fish that has matured into an age where it breeds and so sustains our rivers and lakes for now and the future. Face it if we all took 'one for the pot' we would soon be bemoaning as to where have all the fish gone,

Man is the ultimate predator, leave the taking of coarse fish to the creatures who have a need to take fish. it is your responsibility as an angler I would have thought, is it not?

[Guest Rabbit]

The hypocrisy in angling (as I keep saying) never fails to amaze me.

 

It's OK to stock waters to naturally unsustainable levels, so long as it's makes the catching of fish easier!

 

It's OK to have these fish escape, (as they naturally will), with the obvious impact on the eco system of the other waters.

 

It's OK to constantly target a massive fish in a short stretch of water, hoping that it will weigh an ounce or two more than last time.

 

It's OK to stock fish to sizes that are unnatural to the water, just so that someone can claim a 'record'.

 

It's OK to stock fish that will cross breed with the resident species and risk a whole strain die out.

 

(I could go on, but I think you get the message).

 

These examples are (I presume) thought of as beneficial to the fish. After all angling is such a caring pastime that we wouldn't do it just for our own benefit....would we?

 

But suggest that someone might take the odd fish for the pot , and there is uproar.

Dare to post a recipe, and the cry of indignation is deafening.

 

Complete and utter hypocrisy.

 

John.

 

No I don't get your point...we were talking mature breeding Perch here, not some hand fed commercial carp, Perch are not that common as they used to be, to advocate killing breeding specimens is mind blowingly stupid, and for those that think otherwise then maybe angling is not for them. Would you advocate eating a 2lb roach? sounds awful doesn't it, well to me it does, perhaps we could absolve ourselves of any guilt by someone posting a nice recepie for roach...

[Guest Rabbit]

You don't have to make anything up.

If you use the search facility then you will find recipes for many different fish on here, (and the cries of indignation when we've discussed this topic before).

 

John.

 

Keep digging!!! 'You could find how do anything on the 'net John, doesn't make it right.

[Guest tigger]

Man is the ultimate predator, leave the taking of coarse fish to the creatures who have a need to take fish. it is your responsibility as an angler I would have thought, is it not?

 

 

Exactly right. People moan about Cormorants, Herons, Otters etc eating fish but that's their natural food and unlike us they have no choice. They can't exactly nip to a takeaway if the cuboards are a bit empty.

 

Emma two regarding the method of killing a fish I have no problems with smacking it on the head as it's just about the most humane way of doing it. Also if a fish is obviously gonna pop it's cloggs when realesed and you want to eat it fair enough that's better than just wasting it.

To me eating coarse fish just isn't sustainable as if a tiny percentage of the population had a fish for the pot they would be virtually fished out in less than a year. Game fish are quite different as they are virtually managed by man and a constant eye is kept on their numbers and welfare. If you want to eat fish that badly then don't promote it on the world web possibly encouraging someone who never even considerd eating coarse fish to start. Another option if you are so fond of eating your catch would be to go and catch Trout from a local commercial where the fish are replaced as soon as their numbers start going down.

[gozzer]

John you should really move on from this outdated stance that 'I have a right to take on for the pot' what right the law of nature?, the hunting instinct that has to be satisfied by eating ones quarry?

What is the point of killing a mature perch a fish that has matured into an age where it breeds and so sustains our rivers and lakes for now and the future. Face it if we all took 'one for the pot' we would soon be bemoaning as to where have all the fish gone,

Man is the ultimate predator, leave the taking of coarse fish to the creatures who have a need to take fish. it is your responsibility as an angler I would have thought, is it not?

 

Wow Neil! You have been a busy boy, 3 posts to answer my two.

 

I will try and answer yours a bit at a time.

 

First, why do you presume that you have the right to tell me how I should think? My thoughts may be "outdated" to you, but it is my choice and I will stick with them, thank you very much.

 

The "right" to take "one for the pot" is the same "right" that permits me to lure a fish on to a hook and take it out of it's natural environment in the first place. Whether I then think I might fancy a fish for the pot is my choice, (assuming that it is of legal size and the fishery is sustainable and allows it).

 

I started fishing many years ago, and during that time I have gone through various feelings towards fish.

When I was very young, I went through a phase of attributing human feelings to the fish, (as you seem to do now), I call them my 'Disney' years. But as my experience grew, so did my perception of the fish. I am confident in my belief that fish do not feel 'pain', they do not reason and they are not 'clever', wily, crafty or any other human adjective that you care to use that implies a human type thought process. If I thought that I was 'hunting' an animal such as that, then I wouldn't do it. My conscience it clear on that matter.

 

The point about the hypocrisy in angling, (that you didn't get), is that as a group we as anglers do very little for the welfare of the fish, unless that is, it benefits us as anglers.

The over stocked 'fisheries' and the ensuing effect on the surrounding environment are testament to that.

At least during my discussions with Bob he had the honesty to admit that his reasons were purely selfish.

 

I can see no difference between taking the odd fish for the pot, (subject to my previous conditions) and buying fish from the supermarket, except that I have to do the killing, instead of some faceless individual.

(Maybe that's it, your conscience is clear because you don't have to get involved in the blood and guts of the matter).

Another hypocritical point is that many condemn the 'factory farming' of animals to eat, but on here it's suggested that we buy fish that have been raised in the same unnatural environment, instead of catching and eating 'free range' fish.

In past discussions such statements as "salivating at the sight of a 3lb perch" have been made and other such nonsense spouted. I have said many times that the fish I have taken (subject to my stated conditions) have not been of specimen size. These fish are usually old fish and don't make the best eating. In fact if we were to talk about helping the fish, the big old fish should be the ones to take out. They have contributed to the gene pool and are probably past spawning, so all they do is take food from younger healthier fish. But we couldn't do that, what would we pose with in the papers? How could we boast about our latest PB. We would rather relentlessly target these fish for the trophy shot and the kudos until it dies, then blame everything from otters to foxes for it's death. Scant regard given to the possibility that an old fish being caught and handled so many times might be a contributory factor.

 

I might be outdated in my approach to my angling, but my conscience is clear in what I do and what I believe.

I don't strive to catch the biggest or the most so I can proclaim to the world how 'good' I am.

I can only remember two 'PBs' out of nearly 50yrs fishing, and that's because I would love to catch a 2lb roach, the other is a dace I caught on the same day as my biggest roach. I would only like to catch that for my own enjoyment, and it's a throw back to my younger years. I know accept that I am unlikely to realise my goal, and that's fair enough it doesn't detract from any others I catch.

I might not have (how did you put it?) "evolved" to what you think of as your level Neil, but as i say I am content with my role in angling. My role, my beliefs, and my choices, and so long as I can enjoy what I do then nothing you or anyone else can say will make the slightest difference.

 

 

A member suggested that maybe it was time for another poll on the eating of coarse fish, and would I like to start it? For a moment I was tempted, then I thought, "why?" it would only be subject to the usual self righteous, emotive opinions that have been spouted the other times.

 

I'll finish with just a few words of advise to those that have not made up their minds.

Listen to what is said, weigh up the options and then make your own choice. You might find that your opinions will change through your angling life, this is natural. But so long as what you do is legal, and within the rules of the fishery, and your happy with the situation then there is no need to justify it to others of a different opinion.

As I've said on here before, "I am happy to accept others right to an opinion, as long as they accept my right to a different one".

 

John.

[Guest Rabbit]

Blimey some detail in there which I wont bore with a long winded reply. Suffice to say, and I would like a brief reply please

What if every angler thought as you do and took just one for the pot?

it's my birthday and I am off to trot a stick float down the Mill Avon, I will release all I catch, as I hope to re-catch them on my next birthday

 

 

 

God willing.