Consultation On Bass Mls Underway

[Rapala]

Very well said TP...

[wurzel]

Hello Tom

welcom back Steve

 

I'll try and stay awake to do a quick post.

 

We could go on for ever picking holes in each other's post.

 

EG

I agree with Steves sentiments of "what do you consider broke ?"

 

The scientists say we are fishing sustaiable. I am always being accused of not listening to scientists.

 

There are of course now 19,000 rsa dependant jobs, who also seek opportunities to earn a living, the level of employement has now steadied , after a decline.

 

Did you include DEFRA in the 19,000 dependant jobs.

 

The charter fleet had nothing what so ever to do with the rise and fall of bass stocks.

 

Over 45 cm fish fetch more money when there is not to many on the maket , if they become the norm the price will drop, the smaller fish price will rise because they will be in short supply. although there will probably be a large black market in smaller fish.

 

Don't forget Tom I've been been on about increaceing the MLS and mesh sizes for years. I am trying to put the commercial arguments to you, when I basically agree with you, the thing is you are more concerned with the bass in Gold hanger creek, Steve in a little patch in the Stour estuary, we have to work on a larger scale, and can see a bigger picture, and at the momment I can see problems with a size limit of 45cm, being enforced on just UK boats. I am nodding off while writeing this so got to go, It's a shame Steve did not get to sea with us more often, He would have noted the amounts of larger fish we catch and seen for him self things are alot different out side the river, to day we had a good run of bass to 8 lb not so many now, some cod showed up with one fish I weighed at just under 30 lb.

One Question for you both, what is to stop a foriegner comeing over to this coast, do the same job as me and catch large amounts of 2 lb fish that for them will be legal tender but I will be forced to leave?

[Steve Coppolo]

One Question for you both, what is to stop a foriegner comeing over to this coast, do the same job as me and catch large amounts of 2 lb fish that for them will be legal tender but I will be forced to leave?

 

Is there any need for the French to come over here? Do you think it is a real possibility, or do they have enough bass over their side? I know about the pair Trawlers, they are a different case. But I can't really see many french gill netters spending all their hard earned euros on fuel to fish over here, when they have plenty of bass on their own doorstep.

If they had anything to gain, they would be here now.

Edited November 18, 2005 by Steve Coppolo

[sam-cox]

I can see Wurzels point, but feel his concerns are unfounded.

We dont have enough bass or space inshore to make it worth while for a French commercial to bother comming hear.

Offshore there is the space and it would matter less as its generally larger fish that are targeted offshore any how. Larger fish have spawned so the upping of the MLS would of worked anyhow.

[wurzel]

Of cause they will Steve, If there is a neche a fisherman will fill it, any way the trawlers are already here, if there is an abundance of bass as there will be,( 10 times bigger than the 76 year class everdently), there will be pleanty for them to catch.

 

You did not answer my question.

 

I 'll put it another way. Imagine in a couple of years time, the BMP has been implimented in full, I 'm fishing my normall grounds when along comes the wavy navey, they come aboard and serch the boat for under 45cm bass, they demand to see a plan of the boat, to make sure there are no hidden compartments, they measure all the fish in the fish room,

**** me for a couple of fish that are within a hair of 45 cm, then make me drag all the nets onboard out of the pounds so as they can measure them, go through all the wheelhouse logs and paper work, generally make you feel like a crimminal even when you know every thing is in order. Sound familiar Binatone?

 

Then they fly off and board a Belgium 90 ft stern dragger, he's been working in side of me a couple of miles for a few days, and because of the abundance of bass he's been spending the high waters towing on top of the banks,(I Have seen them do this lots of times over the years)

And he has 1 ton of bass in the fish room most of that fish would be less than 45 cm, the navey do exactly the same process as with me, he has no bass less than 36cm onboard , so he is left to continue fishing.

 

This at some point will happen, any time of the year, in to 6 miles from the coast , fom the Wash to Liverpool bay.

 

Now Steve If it happened to you would you find it acceptable, Yes or No?

 

Now another Question.

You claim to have had some good years, when you caught quite a lot of bass up to nearly 10lb with a good smattering of 3 to 5 LB fish in the river. Now you aren't talking of many years ago, 2or3 maybe 4 or5 years ago. these good years happened during the present 90mm and 36cm lms, there are less nets in use these days, a fraction of what was in use 10 years ago, as you found out when you invesigated the amount of netting that went on for your RSA only campaine. incidently those good years coincided with a couple of good years for us off shore. The same as this year has not been so good for us, same for you.

So is it not safe to assume that there is a good chance that you will have good years again,even if the BMP is not implimented ?

[Steve Coppolo]

If what you describe did actually happen, no I wouldn't find it acceptable.

 

But I'm getting confused now Peter. I have been lead to believe that overfishing was a myth because there were hardly any boats left fishing. You say that most days you never see another boat, apart from the occasional Dutch beamer towing up and down the same lines. Now there are French stern draggers towing along the tops of the banks, and waiting to exploit any niche that hasn't been filled. And what niche exactly, will they be filling? I still can't see why they would come over here to catch 36cm bass when the 2002, 2003 and 2004 year classes have been huge. They will have all the 36cm bass they could want close to the French coast. If the BMP is implemented and they come over here to exploit our 45+cm bass fishery, that's a different story. But even if that did happen,. they would surely start looking at implemeting something similar themselves if there were benefits to be had.

 

Of course you are right about having some good years with the current 36cm and 90mm. But I think that good and bad years inshore are directly related to the amount of commercial effort during those years. I'm sure this year has been bad for me because of the amount of netting that has gone on, probably as a result of our campaign if the truth was known. Offshore might be different, but I know that you will give certain places a rest and won't wipe out a shoal. That indicates that you are aware that you can ruin a place by overfishing it. As you are a full time fisherman, it's in your best interest to fish responsibly and sensibly. It's your living and you have to think of the future. But most inshore fishermen are part time. I don't have to say any more as it's all been said many times already.

 

As for your second question. Again, you make a good point when you say we could have more good years even without the BMP. To be honest, we probably would. But these good years wouldn't be the norm. They would happen once or twice in a decade perhaps, if the past is anything to go by. Then you'd have mostly average years, and a few bad ones. All I want is mostly good years, a few average ones and no bad years. I have to say that I believe the BMP will make it happen.

 

There will always be good arguments for and against the BMP. It is obvious that most commercial fishermen will have different views to most sea anglers. We have totally different agendas, so we are bound to disagree over some of the points. At one time I thought we all had at least one thing in common, and that was we wanted healthier fish stocks. I'm not so sure now though. The BMP will definately deliver on that front, but now it seems that our commercial fishermen are more worried about what the French might do than the healthy fish stocks.

 

Right now it's in the hands of politicians and scientists, a very scary thought! How things will pan out, no one actually knows. But if we don't try it out, we'll never know. We've had years of doing nothing and it doesn't seem to have done us, (anglers), any good. Making a few changes can't make things any worse.

[Guest @AUTUMN@]

Welcome back r sole

[Leon Roskilly]

Does anyone actually know how many 'foreign' boats have a traditional right to fish between 6 and 12 miles?

 

How many of them actually come within the 12?

 

How much bass they currently take within the 12?

 

And how many UK boats work within the 12?

 

And how much bass the UK boats take within the 12?

 

I'd just like to get a handle on the numbers.

 

If it's just a comparative few, taking a small percentage of the total catch within 12, then it's more of an emotional problem than a real problem.

 

And it shouldn't prevent us trying to build up our UK bass stocks, just because a few are taken by boats that come in from outside the UK.

 

As someone else said recently, it's a bit like having an apple tree with a branch overhanging the neighbours garden.

 

Do you neglect the tree because a few of the apples fall into the neighbours garden, or do you prune and fertlise it to produce the best crop possible, even knowing that you are going to lose a few?

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Jaffa]

As someone else said recently, it's a bit like having an apple tree with a branch overhanging the neighbours garden.

 

Do you neglect the tree because a few of the apples fall into the neighbours garden, or do you prune and fertlise it to produce the best crop possible, even knowing that you are going to lose a few?

 

With respect leon, this does not seem to me anyway to be what Wurzel is saying. His arguement seems to be that the neighbour is going to end up owning your garden and you will have no future control over what is or isn't fed to the tree. Hes speaking about losing the whole tree?

[Leon Roskilly]

With respect leon, this does not seem to me anyway to be what Wurzel is saying. His arguement seems to be that the neighbour is going to end up owning your garden and you will have no future control over what is or isn't fed to the tree. Hes speaking about losing the whole tree?

 

 

That really isn't going to happen.

 

 

Are you really saying that Wurzel would prefer to live with a stunted and diseased tree full of maggoty apples, so that his neighbour is deterred from stealing any?

 

 

I sometimes find it really difficult to understand the wavelength of commercial thinking!

 

(But I do try!)

 

 

When the success of the BMP, in a few short years, demonstrates that it is possible to manage the bass fishery in a much more productive way, you can bet that rather than stealing our apples, 'they' will be tending their own trees, eager to reap similar rewards in their own backyard.

 

 

Tight Lines - leon