Obese People Denied Healthcare

[billy5000]

hi all

 

does that mean il be comming on holiday with you then:)

 

true i guess same staff/doctors

 

 

sg

[*Ant*]

Where do you draw the line?

 

Do you stop treating RTA patients because they could have walked?

 

Do you refuse to treat sports injuries?

 

And what about alcohol related admissions?

[Sportsman]

Speaking as a Registered Nurse with 33 years experience I think individuals have some responsibility for their own health.

The fact is that some individuals who need particular types of surgery - joint replacements for the obese, heart operations for smokers for example, are going to have problems after surgery. They will require many more resources and outcomes will not be as good. Would it not be better to spend scarce resources on patients with a better chance of a good outcome?

I would not suggest that these patients should not be treated but they should at least show a degree of cooperation by attempting to lose weight or giving up smoking. There is a lot of "I got myself into this mess by indulging myself, and now I want you to get me out, but don't expect any help from me"

As for alcohol related admissions and sports injuries, ask the views of A&E staff on a weekend

[Alan Stubbs]

Speaking as a Registered Nurse with 33 years experience I think individuals have some responsibility for their own health.

The fact is that some individuals who need particular types of surgery - joint replacements for the obese, heart operations for smokers for example, are going to have problems after surgery. They will require many more resources and outcomes will not be as good. Would it not be better to spend scarce resources on patients with a better chance of a good outcome?

I would not suggest that these patients should not be treated but they should at least show a degree of cooperation by attempting to lose weight or giving up smoking. There is a lot of "I got myself into this mess by indulging myself, and now I want you to get me out, but don't expect any help from me"

As for alcohol related admissions and sports injuries, ask the views of A&E staff on a weekend

 

 

Sports injuries? We are being implored to improve the overall state of our health and suggest that as a result of doing so through aerobic excercise you have a weekend workload which is inconvenient?

 

Is it the hypocratic oath you guys take of the hypocrite's charter?

 

 

I accept the alcohol related part of your argument, but to whinge about sports injuries is a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it. Even jogging is a cause of injuries....

 

With a couple of fairly serious exceptions, I have an innate mistrust of the medical profession... you just reminded me why.

Edited November 23, 2005 by Alan Stubbs

[fisherking]

This was posted by Alan who had a very valid point though overlooked or too scared to reply because of the way this friggin shite governmant is bending our brains.

 

maybe if these people were being refused treatment because of thier race more of a fuss would be being made

 

people with no hope

1 overweight

2 smokers

3 drinkers

4 druggies

 

 

I will say now.

 

This is my friggin country and everyone who is allowed to stay here under whatever bogus excuse about being in danger should then accept and also friggin rejouce in our ways and if they dont like it then go back to the country you came from.

 

So after my rant I will get back to the point of that these people get refused but if they had these ailments and said woa I am Indian, Pakistani, Romanian, Gypsy, Morrocan, spanish or french(though I doubt it cos those froggy gits are aprt and parcel of this) they would get sorted straight away due to some stupid friggin git or council in MY country saying thats it.

 

I lost the plo9t somewhere there but frig it you all know what I am talking about

 

John

[Lid]

Personally I can't see that you can restrict healthcare simply on the grounds of obesity, or the other things mentioned such as alcohol, smoking, etc. However there is some justification in it if as a direct result of your condition the procedure would be short term, ineffective or very dangerous.

 

A couple of books worth reading if you have the time are :

 

Limits to Medicine: Medical Nemesis, the Expropriation of Health by Ivan Illich

 

and

 

What Doctors Don't Tell You: : The Truth About The Dangers Of Modern Medicine

by Lynne McTaggart

Edited November 23, 2005 by Lid

[Peter Waller]

I do quite a lot of work with council grants. I have to say that it annoys me big time when I see people who have made themselves invalids by over eating, drinking and continually fagging it receiving tens of thousands of pounds just because they have not looked after themselves. And believe me when I tell you that I see slob husbands get their payouts so then their wives let themselves go so they can cash in too. There are some folk in Lowestoft who get a very nice joint income that way.

 

No, I don't think that treatment should be witheld, but I do think more deserving cases should be put further up the waiting list.

[Sportsman]

Sports injuries? We are being implored to improve the overall state of our health and suggest that as a result of doing so through aerobic excercise you have a weekend workload which is inconvenient?

 

Is it the hypocratic oath you guys take of the hypocrite's charter?

I accept the alcohol related part of your argument, but to whinge about sports injuries is a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it. Even jogging is a cause of injuries....

 

With a couple of fairly serious exceptions, I have an innate mistrust of the medical profession... you just reminded me why.

Alan, there is a little winking man at the end of that line

I didn't attempt to make an argument or anything else so am surprised you could see any part of it

As for imploring you to get fit and partake of more sport, I have never implored you to do anything, so how can I be accused, as an individual, of hypocrisy?

I have reread my post and can see no sign of whinging about sports injuries or anything else

I also have an inate mistrust of the medical profession, which is why I am a nurse, which would make me part of the nursing profession, or am I missing something.

BTW when you have treated your 27th sports related injury of the afternoon or been attacked for the 6th time that night by a drunk, your entitled to get a bit ticked off, doesn't stop you doing your best for the next one through the door though (Note little winking man - now do I mean that or not?)

 

Fisherking, what started the rascist rant, as far as I can see this has never been mentioned! I do find it a little ironic that after your post you have two links promoting travel to a foreign country, peopled, I can only guess, by nasty foreigners, or do they only become nasty in this country?

Edited November 23, 2005 by Sportsman

[awaaar]

Elton....hope your well?

 

And Hope you don't get a bad hip...

 

atb

 

Andy

 

"2 smokers

3 drinkers"

 

Be a tad unfair....considering the amount of cash they stick into the ecomony and all that

[Alan Stubbs]

Alan, there is a little winking man at the end of that line

I didn't attempt to make an argument or anything else so am surprised you could see any part of it

As for imploring you to get fit and partake of more sport, I have never implored you to do anything, so how can I be accused, as an individual, of hypocrisy?

I have reread my post and can see no sign of whinging about sports injuries or anything else

I also have an inate mistrust of the medical profession, which is why I am a nurse, which would make me part of the nursing profession, or am I missing something.

BTW when you have treated your 27th sports related injury of the afternoon or been attacked for the 6th time that night by a drunk, your entitled to get a bit ticked off, doesn't stop you doing your best for the next one through the door though (Note little winking man - now do I mean that or not?)

 

Fisherking, what started the rascist rant, as far as I can see this has never been mentioned!

 

 

hi Sportsman,

 

I took the winking man to be a cop-out actually.

 

It's convenient for you to look at the nursing profession as separate from the medical profession... it isn't that simple. Look at NHS Direct... nurse practitioners treat cases previously dealt with by doctors, and theWalk-in Centres in many cities. This rather makes them part of the medical profession in it's wider sense. It is the medical profession from the top downwards who try to get people to to take up aerobic excercise to improve their overall health. Progressively nurses are assuming a prescriptive role which reinforces my point somewhat.

 

The dichotomy (or hypocrisy, as I saw it) arises where the self same profession complains at having to treat injuries arising from following medical advice. Sadly sports injuries are an inevitable consequence... they happen. Numbers on a Saturday are somewhat irrelevant. By all means complain about the lack of variety in the work. but don't complain about actually having to do the work in the first place. I suspect teh medical profession would complain about treating RSI from tiddlywinks next.

 

When I injured my hand it was as a result of having prevented a child suffering a more severe injury. In the A & E, a guy in a white shirt and stethoscope wandered by and saw the blood on the floor and ceiling and asked what had happened. 'Glass injury' said the staff nurse, 'F**king stupid thing to do!' said the shirt.

I had a sense of humour failure and said 'You've made a diagnosis based upon a partial knowledge of the facts. You wear a stethoscope and expect me to believe you're a doctor. I haven't seen any evidence of it. I've seen plenty to suggest an arrogant tw*t, but not of being a doctor!'

 

He was the A & E consultant. I don't care, but it reinforced a previously held stereotype.

 

Sportsman, what I wrote wasn't a personal attack... but a well-aimed shot at a profession which seems to want to have it's cake and eat it - and assume a mental obesity in the process.

Edited November 23, 2005 by Alan Stubbs