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Play Or Skull Drag


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'Well , must I have missed something here '

Right.

But you choose not to reply to the question?

 

Such as when surface fishing for carp, for instance? :rolleyes:

 

As has been already pointed out, fly rods and light tackle aren't automatically the same thing. More inaccurate generalisations, Rabbit.

 

The fact is, you are wrong. It really is that simple.

Grabbing at straws now !! Yes I am wrong you are right, if it helps you get by :)

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'But you choose not to reply to the question?'

 

Absolutely right rabbit, but unless you display a modicum of understanding of the dynamics of flyfishing for big fish and are prepared to believe that a flyrod matched to the species can be just as effective as say a decent 1.75lb test curve barbel rod, then there's little point in me trying. Besides you have a preconceived view of the use of flyrods that's impossible to shake...so why should I bother. If I tell you that I can put as much side strain on a big barbel/carp/pike with an appropriate size fly rod as you can with an appropriate weight 12 foot barbel/carp/pike/avon style rod then you'd simply refuse to believe it.

Edited by argyll

'I've got a mind like a steel wassitsname'

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Been a lot of old rubbish wrote by you here Rabbit! You don’t seem to read anyone else’s posts or take account of what they are trying to say.

 

You hint that using light tackle is fine from a boat in clear water? I will tell you now that the last place you want to be when playing a big fish is on a boat. You simply can’t pull hard enough from the small boats used in freshwater. You will just end up pulling yourself to the fish and not the fish to you!

 

“Playing” a fish is all about tiring the fish sufficiently to be able to influence it to swim towards you with the relatively light amount of pressure any tackle set up can apply. That if you care to try it is around 11bs.Theoreticaly any thing heavier than this is just wasted! “Skull dragging” a fish is often not possible due to what I’ve already mentioned and also the hook being straightened or simply ripped from the flesh.

Ever played a fish and had it die on you Rabbit? I have. In the old days of big game fishing we used to play fish to a “stand still” before we could boat them. This resulted on most never recovering enough to be able to release them. Some times you could get one just simply die on you at a distance from the boat if it sank (not all of the pelagic salt water game fish have a large enough swim bladder to keep them afloat) you would never get it in even on 130lb class tackle. These days a system called “boat assisted play” is used to avoid a prolonged fight and to enable catch and release. Strangely much softer rods of a lower strength are used.

 

When I fish for big catfish from the bank I use a 4lb TC through action rod. This is a lot lighter than the often recommended Uptide style of rod. These rods regularly land treble figure cats in 8 or under minutes compared to the much longer 15-20mins of the Uptide brigade.

 

It’s not about the strength of the tackle it is about it being balanced and used correctly. Due to there very through action nature fly rods held low and fully bent can put a lot of pressure on a fish (never done a test to find out how much) so resulting in landing a fish quickly and safely.

 

Fly fishing for barbell’s you don’t reckon that the 101lb cat I caught on a fly rod would have fought as hard as a barbel? Ever caught a 1 1/4lb stocky rainbow on a fly rod Rabbit? They go a bit more than a 1 1/4lb barbel mate! On the subject of barbel on the fly, I have no experience of fishing for them with this method but could see no reason why the method of “short lining” with leaded nymphs that the Czechs use to catch them wouldn’t work in suitable swims here. Got no urge to try it myself but its certainly feasible.

 

Using the “carps welfare” cry is pretty **** poor way of trying to gain the moral high ground and as such it is no wonder you’ve got peoples backs up. This whole business of playing fish and the use/mechanics of a fly rod is some thing you clearly have no knowledge or understanding of. Tell you what don’t listen to me or any of us for that matter because who is to say we are any better informed than you. Go and get yourself a video or DVD of some salt water fly fishing action.” Down and dirty” with the great Billy Pate would be a good one, watch it then tell me/us that a fly rod cant land big fish quickly and safely.

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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There is one thing i would like to know in relation to fly-fishing for barbel and/or carp: And I ask this out of ignorance having no experience of it, and it is in relation to technique.

 

When a cast is made with a fly rod, I believe I'm right in saying it is done so in a series of forward and backward 'flicks' with the rod, paying out increasing amounts of line; the line then is brought back pulling the 'nymph' (or whatever) across the surface enticing a 'bite' with the hand and with the line in coils on the ground.

 

Have I got it right so far?

 

So, in picturing this scenario, what happens when a bite occurs? Is pressure put on the fish buy gripping the line with the rod? How is this pressure maintained? How is the line brought back onto the reel - I assume by frantically turning the handle on the 'pin'? So, what happens in the mean time to the barbel or carp in a river?

 

As I say, I am asking in ignorance, so please excuse me for that. But it might go some way to explaining why rabbit is worried for the safety of the fish in this situation?

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There is one thing i would like to know in relation to fly-fishing for barbel and/or carp: And I ask this out of ignorance having no experience of it, and it is in relation to technique.

 

When a cast is made with a fly rod, I believe I'm right in saying it is done so in a series of forward and backward 'flicks' with the rod, paying out increasing amounts of line; the line then is brought back pulling the 'nymph' (or whatever) across the surface enticing a 'bite' with the hand and with the line in coils on the ground.

 

Have I got it right so far?

 

So, in picturing this scenario, what happens when a bite occurs? Is pressure put on the fish buy gripping the line with the rod? How is this pressure maintained? How is the line brought back onto the reel - I assume by frantically turning the handle on the 'pin'? So, what happens in the mean time to the barbel or carp in a river?

 

As I say, I am asking in ignorance, so please excuse me for that. But it might go some way to explaining why rabbit is worried for the safety of the fish in this situation?

 

T

Barbel most usually fall to a nymph trundled along the bottom, through a known swim. Carp tend to come off the top. Pike at just about any level.

 

Two ways of giving line under pressure. The traditional way....by 'palming' the reel and letting line out by releasing the pressure of your hand. Its a bit hit and miss particularly if you're using a relatively low breaking strain hooklength and if your fish is heading for cover then its 'clamp down hard' and let the rod tip (and middle) take the strain. I'm lazy and prefer to use a good reel with a big smooth disc brake. You can set up the brake in exactly the same way as you set up the clutch on a fixed spool reel or baitcaster so that it gives line only when it reaches a preset point.

Edited by argyll

'I've got a mind like a steel wassitsname'

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Thanks for the reply Argyll.

 

Any more views on this:

 

"How is the line brought back onto the reel - I assume by frantically turning the handle on the 'pin'? So, what happens in the mean time to the barbel or carp in a river?"

 

In particular the latter part?

 

I ask because in this situation, i can see where Rabbit is coming from, and I think at the in-between stage where the line is on the floor and the bite occurs, and time it takes to get the line back on the reel, is the time where the fish is lost to snags?

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Thanks for the reply Argyll.

 

Any more views on this:

 

"How is the line brought back onto the reel - I assume by frantically turning the handle on the 'pin'? So, what happens in the mean time to the barbel or carp in a river?"

 

In particular the latter part?

 

I ask because in this situation, i can see where Rabbit is coming from, and I think at the in-between stage where the line is on the floor and the bite occurs, and time it takes to get the line back on the reel, is the time where the fish is lost to snags?

 

If you're fishing snags then its likely that the bank will be snaggy too or lack proper accessibility...so no line on the floor. I don't bother with a line basket either.

 

If I'm on a boat with a flat surface and clear water around, I will strip line onto the deck and when a fish hits the lure/fly I secure the fish with my rod hand index finger clamped around the rod and line. At the same time the loose line is then batted quickly back onto the reel and the brake then does all of the work. You usually get enough time to do that before the fish recovers its wits and takes off....and thats a pretty standard way of dealing with loose line if you intend to play the fish off the reel rather than to hand, as I prefer where theres a chance of a big fish.

 

With smaller fish I'll let the fish gradually have the loose line then play it back off the reel. On the bank without the luxury of clear water and no bankside vegetation, its a short strip, clamp with index finger, bat loose line onto the reel, short strip, clamp with index finger etc. Never much more than a foot or two of loose line. That's a general view of traditional distance flycasting from a bankside swim with little room for loose line on the floor. However with standard barbel tactics, there should be no loose line. Its a bit like trotting a bait except that you're trotting a weighted nymph. Not very pretty but it works.

Edited by argyll

'I've got a mind like a steel wassitsname'

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