Is it the end for charter skippers and fishing clubs? No time to bury your heads

[clem]

Clem

You have actually rested my case The stocks aren't better for it because the skippers use to sell them at the fish market. the rule was two each for the anglers and the skipper sold the rest

The biggest reason why there is less charter boats is because there are fewer fish to catch.

A 1000lb angling haul made up of Cod and Pollack was normal in the 70's and you often heard of 3000lb. days all of which went to the market. We can't pretend anglers didn't effect the fishing because many trawlers would be glad of days like that now

WOW Ian - anglers fee+200stone on the market, 600 on a good day ,no lost or damaged gear so what is the problem have the anglers smelt a pout or have you all retired early?

PLEASE ,are you telling me that trawlers are missing those fish now ?If anglers could catch 60kit on muppets it must have been "dip and fill" -unless that is they still only had the old 100hp plodders but all that has changed now hasnt it?

Yes the anglers have seen the error of their ways.

YES THE 2 FISH LIMIT REALLY WORKED.

[clem]

It works in other parts of the world so why not here? Just because the UK is so inept in policing it's fisheries doesn't make sensible bag limits a bad idea. We should have a dedicated coastguard service like the US do. Bag limits should be set based on species and time of year. I'm not against charters but I am against the inresponsible killing of fish that probably get fed to the cat. Just look at the mackeral frenzy around our coast every year. As a skipper I would have thought you would be actively promoting conservation as you'll have even less customers when the fish run out!

 

JRT

I think yuor missing the point M8 . Yes the UK and more important Europe cannot manage fish stocks but Iceland can and they have no bag limits for anglers- but thats me missing the point.

Are you suggesting the reason our fish stocks are as they are is because next doors cat has been fed a few bleggs?

The mackrel are hammered every year well before they are in range of any angling boat but am I complaining ? there are always a few left for us anglers.

[big_cod]

I think yuor missing the point M8 . Yes the UK and more important Europe cannot manage fish stocks but Iceland can and they have no bag limits for anglers- but thats me missing the point.

Are you suggesting the reason our fish stocks are as they are is because next doors cat has been fed a few bleggs?

The mackrel are hammered every year well before they are in range of any angling boat but am I complaining ? there are always a few left for us anglers.

 

Yes clem i think what you are saying ANGLERS DONT DO ANY DAMAGE TO STOCKS,mackerel are hammered long before they even look at a spinner .

You are probably right clem paligic pair teams take thousands of tons of mackerel in a flash but the poor old angler might be only able to to take just a couple for the pot for gods sake what balony who ever thought this madness up .

Edited May 21, 2006 by big_cod

[sam-cox]

But once again sam you speak for what you know. I have said this time and again in this place not everywhere is the same

 

yes and I have listened to you time after time, now please do me the courtesy of listening to ME!

As I said before there would need to be diferent rules for different areas, no body wants to see the angling trade suffer. It is up to the angling trade and anglers to educate the powers that be what needs doing and where.

[Toerag]

WOW Ian - anglers fee+200stone on the market, 600 on a good day ,no lost or damaged gear so what is the problem have the anglers smelt a pout or have you all retired early?

 

Catches dropped so much that the charterboats couldn't survive on selling the fish the anglers caught as there wasn't enough of it. When licenses became worth money they simply sold them on and put up the charter prices to live on. The days of 500stone between 4 men are long gone, I fish a couple of wrecks no-one knows about and even they don't have anywhere near that quantity on them. I believe the fish simply get caught when they're moving from one wreck to another. In the old days the trawlers couldn't go anywhere near the wrecks for fear of losing their gear, and wrecknetters didn't exist. Then decca appeared, and GPS, and that was the end of that.

[Steve Coppolo]

Dont know where your from mate but our north sea fishery is fluid if you see what I mean everything migrates or "moves around " when they get on the grounds there hammered HAMMERED (and not by muppets).These countries are they landlocked by any chance ?or are they like big rock pool fisheries or fijords ?cannot spell fijords.

 

Hi Clem

No, the fish I'm talking about are migratory sea fish. The difference is that in these other countries measures have been put in place to protect them from over exploitation. (exploitation is still exploitation whether it's done by commercials or anglers) The only reason that has happened is that angling is considered a lot more important than it is over here at present. The anglers who enjoy the benefits positively embrace the idea of licences and bag limits, after all it's those things that have given them fishing that is far superior to ours.

[Fastd]

Hi Ian,

 

I have been out for a few hours and this thread has really moved on for better or worse.

 

Hi Dave

Don't think for a minute that my anglers started of as conservationalists on catch and release. It was unpopular with many at the time and we lost quite a few customers. At the time, I was told by one of my skippers that I was committing financial suicide. Another local skipper said, its easy for me as I have a different class of clientelle. It's all ****s, as it is about education. How many anglers actually eat the fish they catch as I know many that swap it for beer, give it away or even feed the cat with it.

 

As you know there are other species in the North Sea, including, inshore Pollack, Rays, flatties and even Porgies. To state a fish limit would bankrupt a charter boat is blinkered thinking.

 

I totally support your decision as you know. It was a risk based on your personal and totally correct beliefs...the other skipper said it at the time..."you must be mad". But look back to the time you made that decision and picture a scenario where you had to make that decision but there were another 19 charter boats tied up in Drummore harbour. It would be total financial suicide to make that decision. The skipper who first goes out on a limb in whitby and voluntairily does what you did will be commiting economic suicide. The fishing in whitby is totally different to your area, it has a long tradition of filling boxes with fish, thats what the punters who fish there want, have done for many years and will continue to do so for as long as the skippers can come up with the fish.

 

The only way this type of traditional fishing will ever change is if the customers stop coming due to low catches, the attitude of the anglers change or a change in the law forces a change. The whole thread has been about a potential threat of bag limits, but this is all hypothetical at the moment. If the limit was set at for example 20 fish per angler for cod it seriously doubt that on most days out it would be rare for them to hit this figure. Yep I realise there are exceptional days but they are getting fewer and farther between.

 

The whitby skippers are experts at their type of fishing, there are alternative fish to be had but as far as I can tell they are not there in sufficient quantities to justifiy a charter skipper targeting them and still expect customers to keep returning. In the last two weeks I have had two catch and release trips from Whitby with a skipper who is forward thinking enough to see that things need to change and if he can steal a lead on the other skippers in terms of the knowledge of how to catch these alternatives it puts him in a better position should laws come in where the current fishing methods in that area become unviable. The main comment I would make on altenative forms of fishing in the whitby area is that the knowledge of how to catch them is not available from the skippers as they have never needed to do it. I apologise to Malcom who I have been going out with, but I am sure he would agree with me. The reason for my recent thornback tactics thread which was read by both of us was to get some details of how to get them. We went out again for them...failed but will still try again.

 

If a law is introduced that means licenses are needed for sea fishing I would put money on the fact it will be up to skippers to check licenses of anglers on their boats...acting unpaid bailiffs. There is no reason to panic about catch limits as it will be the same for everyone so if anglers want to fish there will still be customers for the boats.

 

Its all speculative for the time being....lets see what the law brings before getting too hung up on things..in the mean time try putting a few back alive you never know it may become a habit

 

Dave

[wurzel]

This is getting silly. For a start all this talk of stocks being hammered, we are not prepared to accept licences or bag limits until we see better management of all fish stocks and anglers don’t make a difference so there is no need.

You ain’t going to have a choice .

 

Just sit back and have a look at the commercial fleets around you,can’t you see the difference compared to 10 years a go?, the commercial fleet is a mere shadow of what it used to be and still shrinking , where is all this hammering of stocks taking place , the only hammering is of the fleet , it is being hammered into oblivion. Fuel prices will force even more out, just where is the fleet still a threat to fish stocks that concern anglers?

 

I agree anglers don’t make a difference to the overall stocks , same as I don’t , but locally same as I do you can make a difference, when you get a situation where angling boats are landing more fish than the commercial boats are allowed they have no choice but to do some thing about it . I think the bag limit is 20 Kg per man in Holland and Belgium , that’s not so bad , a party on a boat could share out the catch evenly instead as often happens a couple take home two bin liners full the rest have one or two between them , so the experts still end up catching most of the fish but every body takes the same home if they wish. Catch and release is catching on and as Big Cod says more sporting tactics are being used these days (probably why he don’t catch the same amount of fish he used too) So I don’t think the charter boats will suffer, They are being just like us commercials, don’t like change and like it even less if it is forced on you.

 

The licence thing is a forgone conclusion, the need the cash.

 

There is a lot of mention of the fisheries of the USA, from what I understand even with their bass fishery the commercials are allowed a fair share or a quota that they can make a good living with, I don’t see a problem with that, it’s all I ever wanted, they do have the big advantage of having a 200 mile limit and are not part of the bloody EU .

[wurzel]

Hello Fastd

 

Quote

I apologise to Malcom who I have been going out with, but I am sure he would agree with me. The reason for my recent thornback tactics thread which was read by both of us was to get some details of how to get them. We went out again for them...failed but will still try again.

 

I don't want to dampen your hopes but when I fished around the Whitby area, the nets I used were very good at catching thornbacks, we never saw one, just a few very small Jennys ( local name for a small ray of some sort) you would do better to target Turbot , Brill and Plaice which are there in abundance if you want to look for alternative fish to catch.

[Fastd]

Good and unbiased post wurzel.

 

The commercial fleet is a shadow of what it used to be because it was uneconomical and the simple fact of business economics has put it that way.

 

If i dont make a profit my bank closes me down, if I dont pay me vat the gov will do it first...or the tax man. I work flat out to make sure this doesn't happen and if I fail I get no offers of help to bail me out. The fishing industry should be the same. So should the charter fishing industry for that matter...adapt to current conditions or fail as a business...no one has a god given right to make fortunes (your local vicar may disagree with that statement) you do it by hard work and adapting to meet whatever the current climate throws at you.

 

If laws are introduced to limit pleasure catches we will all have to adapt our fishing to suit. I for one would be all for it as my last three trips can only be described as sustainable fishing ( 6 fillets and two of them caused by deep hooking)

 

I would seriously question wether RSA would get any benifit from a licensing scheme. I for years have paid my freshwater license and cant honestly say I have got anthing back at all. I see salmon passes being built and baliffs on night patrol to stop poachers but then I chose to be a coarse angler in a salmon and seatrout orientated area. But if a license scheme includes the right for RSA to be officially recognised as a stakeholder I am all for it!

 

Dave