Damn this government!

[chris parker]

A good friend of mine is originally from the border region between Afganistan and Pakistan. He is a UK passport holder. He has 3 daughters and 2 sons all born here. They are now all married and living in either Pakistan or Afganistan. They routinely fly over when the girls are pregnant or the wives of the sons are pregnant to have their children here at NHS expense and get the birth registered. As soon as the child is old enough to travel they return home to live. There are at the last count 19 grandchildren. Whenever any of them need treatment, innoculation, operations etc it is combined with a family holiday, to make it cost effective the grandchildren needing innoculations, tonsils, apendix etc. are brought over by one of the adults who also need some form of treatment.

 

When the children get to school age they come over here to go to school and live at my friend's house. As soon as they finish school/university they return home to Afganistan or Pakistan get married, return here to have their children, he now has 3 great grand children.

 

My friends occupation.............. GP (retired).

 

I am not sure of the legalities but they must be costing the NHS a fortune with nothing put back in. I wonder how many more are doing the same?

[nursejudy]

Chris

in the area I work in this is so common,i was asked to open a letter by one of our patients ..it was addressed to her grandson (local address) who lives in Morrocco ...it was an interview date for one of the big schools in Sheffield !!!!!

its so common !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but i have to be careful about what I can say

judith

Edited August 23, 2006 by nursejudy

[RobStubbs]

Erm sorry Steve, that is not quite a true statement!! Think you will find you have to PAY for treatment in France ceratainly!! And THEN try and claim it back! (Speaking from experience here!) No such thing as FREE treatment in France certainly and treatment is already "Pre-piad surely!?)

 

BUT know what you are saying!

 

Slightly off topic but dental treatment is almost free and I didn't even need to show my E111 (or new card equivalent). I had emergency dental work on an abcess last year (on my birthday!) and I think I had to pay somethinmg like 10 euros. Try that in the UK and you'd be paying at least 10 x that - if you could actually find someone to do it.

 

Rob.

[Sportsman]

I was taken into A&E in a hospital in Spain with a back problem a couple of years ago. Taken in by ambulance. Pain relief given in ambulance. Seen immediately, X ray taken, seen by specialist, painkillers given and prescription and advice given before discharge. When I asked about payment was told not to bother about it, we are all in the EU. No paper work, no forms and no request for documentation. (BTW the hospital was cleaner, better equipped and better staffed than any I have worked in in the UK)

There are many problems with illegal immigrants and the NHS but I don't think it is a Dr or Nurses job to police it. If I am faced with a sick child, what do you expect me to do, check the National Insurance contributions are up to date.?

Much is made of lack of funds to utilise certain treatments, what about the tens or possibly hundreds of millions spent each year treating self inflicted illness in drug abusers, in the knowledge that as soon as they are fit again they will go off and continue the life style, ensuring you will see them once more with the same problem, over and over again.

The way the NHS is funded, if you save money in one dept it does not mean that there will be more to spend elswhere

[DavyR]

Much is made of lack of funds to utilise certain treatments, what about the tens or possibly hundreds of millions spent each year treating self inflicted illness in drug abusers, in the knowledge that as soon as they are fit again they will go off and continue the life style, ensuring you will see them once more with the same problem, over and over again.

 

We've previously discussed a similar problem on here concerning NHS treatment for smokers, the overweight/obese, participants in dangerous sports, etc.

 

I wonder, if it came to a referendum, how many would vote for an NHS free at the point of use for all, regardless of cost, how many would favour private insurance, and how many would want a free service only for the "blamelessly ill" (and who, in that case, would act as judge and jury in deciding who was eligible)?

[Steve Walker]

I wonder, if it came to a referendum, how many would vote for an NHS free at the point of use for all, regardless of cost, how many would favour private insurance, and how many would want a free service only for the "blamelessly ill" (and who, in that case, would act as judge and jury in deciding who was eligible)?

 

I think the point at which you start excluding "self-inflicted" illnesses is the point where you have to allow people to opt-out of paying and take out private insurance instead. Otherwise, you have the health industry dictating to individuals how to live their lives. At that point, the system collapses, because those who are a good health risk take their money to the private sector which won't touch those who aren't. The public system is left with the NI from the poor and the costs of the sick, and it goes under.

[DavyR]

It's almost happening here already, Steve - as resources get tighter and tighter, "poor risk" patients (smokers/obese/very elderly) are not going to be "excluded" from treatment, but they'll simply have to wait so long in the queue for it (being leapfrogged all the time by "better risk" patients) that it'll amount to the same thing.

[UK-Fishing-Tackle.co.uk]

I don't have a problem with economic migrants but we've had this debate before and I think there comes a point (and most countries operate similar systems from what I can gather) where you simply say we will accept 'n' people per year and thats it -except- under special circumstances.

 

The reason why is because smallish pubs and clubs in lincolnshire (cheap employment) are going to Poland and the like on 'holiday' to acquire cheaper staff to bring back with them as 'economic migrants' - Frankly thats crap and should be outlawed, since it is nothing but exploitation and it does mean we are accepting migrants because they are more economically feasible than locals - a situation which ought to be resolved by governments (i.e. reduce taxation and give employers slightly better breaks than they currently do - espeically smaller employers). I accept economic migration for specialist skills but lets face it that has happened for 50 odd years if you look at the NHS to a certain extent (foreign doctors and consultants are certainly nothing new to this country).

 

In terms of NHS treatment then 400,000 (or 0.67%) is enough to bring the system down because it is already a system which is simply unworkable - you have too many people to service and only a relatively small 'donation per person' via the tax system to keep it running. It's about time people realised that it will collapse one day, and if it makes 2020 in it's present form I'd be amazed. Again, it would take a government with a lot of balls to bring private healthcare to the forefront and run a 'very standard' NHS emergency system in the background (i.e. like the US do in effect), but it is a decision which will need to be made, so I don't understand why the groundwork isn't being phased in now and the public are informed about how their lives will need to change over the next 20 years or so.

 

Instead it will be pulled away from us in a matter of months when it finally reaches breaking point, and the private sector will not be prepared to cope - then we are really up the creek without a paddle! Better to be honest and plan ahead (i.e. fix the problem) rather than bury your head in the sand!

[DavyR]

so I don't understand why the groundwork isn't being phased in now and the public are informed about how their lives will need to change over the next 20 years or so.

 

It goes back to what a previous poster was saying about politicians and their short-termism. I think they all know what's going to happen, but rather than prepare people for it, they'll bob and weave and try to arrange things so that they're not the ones holding the bomb when it does go off.

[ayjay]

Maybe we should be looking more at the obscene amounts of money charged for some of these drugs.

 

Yes, I know there is a lot of R&D before they are brought to market but if they were substantially cheaper and consequently prescribed more freely then the profits would not be affected.