The preaching of total catch and release is loosing conservation suporters.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

I have read through this thread and I think you are missing one very important point.

 

Freshwater angling was pretty much in the same boat as us with regards to having a voice prior to the introduction of the rod licence.

 

I think with the introduction of a rod licence people like Gareth will start to get very vocal about their sport.

 

If there are no chains people tend to drift along singing a song with out being heard, I personally think DEFRA will be shooting themselves in the foot with a rod licence as they will finally find out what they are up against.

[glennk]

The thing is glenn, it's too late by the time it gets to the consultation stage anyway. The issues will already have been decided by then, the consultation is just a legal requirement. Just look at the bass MLS farce. Do you think they took the slightest bit of notice of the responses?

 

Thats the point I made to big cod and his friends on the charter pontoon, but unfortunately they chose to believe what was being said by the lassie from defra that bag limits and licences are not on the agenda at the moment(we all know what that means), and so they went back to sleep. Trouble is next time they wake up it will be consultation time and far too late to make any difference. I really have a sense of de ja vue here, all this was said on an earlier thread.

 

Plus I'm also going to have to admit something here. Before his sad demise Mr Binatone said that the majority of anglers didnt want representing in this way - they dont want bag limits, licences etc they just want to go fishing. Im beginning to think the man was right - for once.

Edited September 23, 2006 by glennk

[glennk]

Just what is proposed though. Im slipping behind here.

 

Spasor for fear of upsetting people I think the truth of what people are thinking is not coming out here. I get the feeling people are talking about the sacn and nfsa when they discuss this issue. If Im wrong please tell me and ill apologise and leave you all to it.

Edited September 23, 2006 by glennk

[Leon Roskilly]

Plus I'm also going to have to admit something here. Before his sad demise Mr Binatone said that the majority of anglers didnt want representing in this way - they dont want bag limits, licences etc they just want to go fishing. Im beginning to think the man was right - for once.

 

There are a lot of things coming our way that anglers really don't want, sticking your head in the sand and hoping that they go away isn't the way to deal with those issues.

 

It is the few angling organisations that we have that are making the effort to oppose unnecesary restrictions, and where there is a determination to impose restrictions regardless, negotiate for as good a deal as possible.

 

If the organisations were to disappear in a puff of smoke, do you really think that anglers could rest easy with no organisations to press their case?

 

That the ideas of bag-limits, licenses, MPAs (already imposed successfully in many parts of the world) would simply disappear from the consiousness of UK fishery managers and simply disappear?

 

Anyone who reads the commercial angling press, or knows anything of the politics, will realise that the catching sector is incandescent with rage that a thin slice of the cake that they regard as their own has been handed to anglers (all 4cm of it!), and they are determined to put a stop to that.

 

One of their tactics is to spread Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.

 

'Anglers don't want these changes'

 

'It's all down to an unrepresentative elite few'

 

'All that you are going to do is bring bag limits and licences upon yourselves'

 

 

'Keep quiet and go back to being happy with the crumbs that fall off our table, and leave our cake alone!'

 

 

And some fall for it, Hook Line and Sinker!!

 

 

And they help those who prefer to see us powerless and unrepresented, doing their work for them.

 

 

 

No angling organisation is asking for Bag Limits.

 

No angling organisation is asking for a Recreational Sea Angling Licence.

 

No angling organisation is asking for areas where anglers are to be excluded.

 

 

 

If you have proof otherwise let me know.

 

Otherwise please, if you can restrain yourself, please stop joining with angling's enemies in chucking mud in the hope that much of it will stick to the only hope that we have of building a better recreational sea fishery and to ward off the worst of the inevitable restrictions on practising our sport that are coming this way.

 

There have been those that have already had enough and thrown in the towel, there are those now considering whether it's worth the effort.

 

That's just what those who despise RSA for what has managed to achieve thus far, and are fearful of what it could achieve in future are working for.

 

Who really wants to give them a hand?

[Cranfield]

Probably, the best post I have read on this subject on Anglers Net.

[Steve Coppolo]

There are a lot of things coming our way that anglers really don't want, sticking your head in the sand and hoping that they go away isn't the way to deal with those issues.

 

It is the few angling organisations that we have that are making the effort to oppose unnecesary restrictions, and where there is a determination to impose restrictions regardless, negotiate for as good a deal as possible.

 

If the organisations were to disappear in a puff of smoke, do you really think that anglers could rest easy with no organisations to press their case?

 

That the ideas of bag-limits, licenses, MPAs (already imposed successfully in many parts of the world) would simply disappear from the consiousness of UK fishery managers and simply disappear?

 

Anyone who reads the commercial angling press, or knows anything of the politics, will realise that the catching sector is incandescent with rage that a thin slice of the cake that they regard as their own has been handed to anglers (all 4cm of it!), and they are determined to put a stop to that.

 

One of their tactics is to spread Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.

 

'Anglers don't want these changes'

 

'It's all down to an unrepresentative elite few'

 

'All that you are going to do is bring bag limits and licences upon yourselves'

'Keep quiet and go back to being happy with the crumbs that fall off our table, and leave our cake alone!'

And some fall for it, Hook Line and Sinker!!

And they help those who prefer to see us powerless and unrepresented, doing their work for them.

No angling organisation is asking for Bag Limits.

 

No angling organisation is asking for a Recreational Sea Angling Licence.

 

No angling organisation is asking for areas where anglers are to be excluded.

If you have proof otherwise let me know.

 

Otherwise please, if you can restrain yourself, please stop joining with angling's enemies in chucking mud in the hope that much of it will stick to the only hope that we have of building a better recreational sea fishery and to ward off the worst of the inevitable restrictions on practising our sport that are coming this way.

 

There have been those that have already had enough and thrown in the towel, there are those now considering whether it's worth the effort.

 

That's just what those who despise RSA for what has managed to achieve thus far, and are fearful of what it could achieve in future are working for.

 

Who really wants to give them a hand?

 

If that's what you think Leon, fine. I'm not convinced.

 

I must be honest now and say that I have very little faith in those negotiating on our behalf. There, I've said it. And what's more, I haven't read anything here, or anywhere else, to make me feel any different. I fear that we will be sold down the river, our right given away and for very little or nothing in return. Then some of them will claim they've achieved a victory no doubt.

 

That's my opinion, that's what I think. If anyone doesn't agree with it, so be it, but until something happens to change my mind, that's the line I'm taking.

[glennk]

Angling enemies Leon ? Where does that come from. I fish as much as you if not more, I do a lot of work for my local communtiy on the fishing front. I am as passionate about angling as anyone you will find in the north east. I am no enemy of angling nor is anyone else who wants to offer you a different point of view to your own.

 

Anyone who knows me will tell you as I am about to tell you if I have a point of view you will share it with you and you may not always like what you hear - call that disrespectful if you wish but Im not here to make friends or earn respect, I do that in my life away from here. Slinging mud is not something I do, speaking my mind is. I will never be quiet on something so dear to me.

You are right no angling organisation is asking for these measures, but just how much they are opposing them is another matter entirely.

No doubt getting involved in these things Leon is stressful, no doubt many have left due to burn out and pressure. No doubt you give up a lot of time and your own money to do this. Perhaps if people like me didnt keep opening their big mouths and stirring issues the job would be less stressful - It would also be a lot more one sided.

I believe when the time comes you will see the real side of angling - bodies twice as powerful as what we see now will spring up and the real issues will be dealt with. Just watching how the local charter fleet kicked into gear not so long back convinced me of that - The only sad thing was they were diverted in their way of thinking by a clever civil servant who told them bag limits and licences were not an issue. You are all playing with things that will impact on our communties and giving us nothing in return. We have been screwed by the commercial fishermen we dont want screwing by anglers next.

 

And thats my opinion, if people dont like it, I wont loose sleep. But I ceratinly won't be quiet.

 

The answer to the next question is no.

[Leon Roskilly]

Angling enemies Leon ? Where does that come from. I fish as much as you if not more, I do a lot of work for my local communtiy on the fishing front. I am as passionate about angling as anyone you will find in the north east. I am no enemy of angling nor is anyone else who wants to offer you a different point of view to your own.

 

 

I think that you've got the wrong end of the stick Glenn, I wasn't referring to you and have no idea why you might think I was.

 

Don't doubt for a moment other than that angling has some very powerful enemies who would like to see us consigned to history, along with the bear-baiters.

 

And although the public antics of the 'antis' may not seem to pose any real, great or immediate threat, there are others who are more sophisticated, and more subtle in their approach, who are a very real danger to not only the way that we now practise our pastime, but to the unfettered potential development of angling.

 

As sea anglers we also have those that see us as a threat to themselves and their own unfettered access to any fish that might be turned into cash.

 

 

Anglers didn't get all that they wanted out of the Bass MLS proposals, so now it seems that many are prepared to throw in the towel, and turn upon those who worked hardest to achieve the best that could be attained (and I might add are still working on it, not everyone has thrown in the towel!)

 

 

The catching sector were appalled that what they are allowed to catch has been affected by the pleas of anglers that their needs and contribution should be considered also in the management of our fish stocks.

 

 

Did they throw in the towel and turn on their (paid, resourced, career) representatives for not doing enough?

 

 

"Contributions to the fighting fund have already started to flow, even before it has been formally established. The last major fighting fund we established to fight the UK days-at-sea restrictions generated just under £100,000 over three months" - NFFO - FN 15/9/06

 

"PS: Well done anglers! You got what you wanted, but trust me, you will be next in their sights and do not ask for any support from my fishing business. PPS: I will also pledge £400 towards the NFFO Court Fund" - FN Letters 22/9/06

 

"The Committee will decide the form of the campaign and how the fighting fund will be spent" Barrie Deas said. Among the ideas suggested so far are: <snip>. Work to highlight the weaknessses in the anglers' arguments for certain stocks like bass and tope to be reserved for recreational angling" - NFFO - FN 15/9/06

 

 

No you are not the enemy Glenn, but angling does have those enemies, and they have and are being given the resources to 'deal with us'.

 

 

They are mobilising against us.

 

 

What are we doing?

[Davor]

I'll be prefectly honest, I know very little about conservation measures or proposed conservation measures.

 

What I don't understand is why us? If all 1,000,000 of us went fishing today and all had a reasonable days catch we'd barely scratch the surface of what the commercial fleet take on the same day.

 

Imposing restrictions on us would seem to me like banning push-bikes to protect road surfaces but leaving cars and lorries alone.

 

Am I missing something?

[Steve Coppolo]

Anglers didn't get all that they wanted out of the Bass MLS proposals, so now it seems that many are prepared to throw in the towel, and turn upon those who worked hardest to achieve the best that could be attained (and I might add are still working on it, not everyone has thrown in the towel!)

 

I think you may be confusing "turning against", with, "expressing concern about". They may appear similar, but there is a world of difference. Without going back over old ground, you know why I'm concerned. I always said to Tom that the bass MLS decision would be a yard stick as far as I was concerned. It would let us know what we could expect in the future. Going on what we've seen so far we will be taken for a ride, unless those who talk to the decision makers accept that things can, and maybe should, be done differently.

 

Refusing to accept that things may have been done wrong won't do anyone any favours. I'm not knocking anyone for making mistakes, as you say, those who tried were a few amateurs up against professionals, and they did the best they could. No one will knock someone for doing their best, but a refusal to accept some constructive critisism and listen to alternative views is a different matter. It gives the impression that the few are telling the majority to pipe down because "we know best", when the bass result clearly shows that's not the case.

 

Can you imagine what is in store for us with regard to licences, bag limits, compulsory C&R and MPA's if the bass decision is anything to go by? That's what worries me. What makes it worse is the unwillingness shown after the announcement to complain strongly about what was obviously a very bad decision. What I saw from RSA was an expression of mild disappointment, sympathy for Bradshaw because he had a difficult task, and claims that a 4cm increase was some kind of victory. That was very worrying. I expected more, and I'm sure the majority of sea anglers expected more. What you've got to realise is, people won't keep backing you indefinately just because you're up at the front. Right or wrong, people expect results and they expect those at the front to get them. If you want the backing of the 1,000,000 sea anglers in this country, then you're going to have to start listening to what they are saying.

 

One more thing. You've mentioned those that worked "hardest" in your post. Just who is it, in your opinion, who worked the "hardest"? From where I'm standing, there were a lot of people working very hard in the background and they all deserve credit, not just a perceived select few.