Cod crisis? What cod crisis?

[stavey]

Ah forget it Challenge I tried to meet you half way and discuss the "Real issue" real to us anglers that give a dam anyway and you just throw it back in my face.I wont bother offering any more information or trying to explain the "in joke" aspect of my "in bred" comment as your obviously only interested in your own agenda.Stuff you if you cant conduct a discussion without childish accusations of jealousey.

 

If there is anyone who wants to discuss the cod crisis then fine if I see it else where I will contribute but it seems pointless here.

 

Hi budgie

 

Excuse me challenge for butting in on you thread, budgie i am from the same area as you and used to fish dungie a lot in the 70's and 80's so i know exactly where your coming from, you have made some good points and the info about the dungie fishermens records is very interesting, it definitely warrants posting a new topic about and the simple fact about the total (well almost) disapearance of the cod! here from the south coast thats for sure, i would certainly contribute to it so how about it budgie would you make a start you could call it the south english coast cod crises? or something like that, cheers.............

[Guest challenge]

Ah forget it Challenge I tried to meet you half way and discuss the "Real issue" real to us anglers that give a dam anyway and you just throw it back in my face.I wont bother offering any more information or trying to explain the "in joke" aspect of my "in bred" comment as your obviously only interested in your own agenda.Stuff you if you cant conduct a discussion without childish accusations of jealousey.

 

If there is anyone who wants to discuss the cod crisis then fine if I see it else where I will contribute but it seems pointless here.

Budgie I have tried to explain to you what we do and why I started this thread in the first place.

I have explained to you why john acquired the boat he has and for what reasons.

I have also explained to you what we do and why we do it.

I have not got a clue what you do and why you do it.

If that’s meeting me half way?

There will always be regional differences and at times animosity because of the different experiences that we all meet on a daily basis.

We have a regional difference on here with people who work from the same port, but fish in different locations.

I hope you find what you’re looking for. It’s there, just ask our anglers.

Regards.

[mr motorola]

Mr Motorola,please explain exactly what Ive lost my grip on? Is it reality? If so I can assure you that my grasp of the facts concerning the cod fishing in my area (er both shore and boat for that matter) are very real.I might not sea fish much anymore (mind you that said Im only saying this when compared to the minimum of 4 nights a week on the shore during the winter and at least twice a week off my boat I used to) I wouldnt mind betting I still go more than most on here!

 

As for not been able to comment on Challenges post,his/the boats attempt to belittle a very serious problem and get some cheap advertising to boot just because I havnt been on a trip with them...well? If you bother to read my initial post properly you will see my problem is not a personal issue with either Challenge or the boat,it is nort a comment on wether they supply a "good" service or not,It is not questioning wether their customers enjoy the trip or not.

 

It is however questioning that there is a cod crisis (something that my practical experience of fishing for them on the South coast of England for several decades shows me quite clearly there is,despite the strange reluctance the sea angling world both anglers and magazines seem to have in speaking of it)

 

Im also saying that I dont agree with the publishing of boxs upon boxs of dead cod when linked to a statement that claims there is no problem.

 

Im also saying that my opinion of Challenge and the boat in question all though only based on this thread isnt very high.

 

I dont know what your personal experiences of the cod situation are and as such would certainly not take it upon myself to dissmiss them off handedly.

 

Ive (to the best of my ability with my limited literacy skills) tried to explain where my veiws are comming from,so please explain as to exactly what I need to get a grip of?

thanks very much for your great reply BUDGIE

firstly can i just say that i did apologize to you in a later post after newt put me back on the straight and narrow..

 

secondly.... if you don't agree with the picture of boxes upon boxes of dead fish then thats fine aswell, BUT challenge is a friend of mine and thought he might like to see it as the trip was a good one had by all. the picture may have upset a few people with conservation issues , but why should i not post it?? i've paid a lot of hard earned money to go on the trip and i'll be damned if i'm not pleased about showing off our catch to anyone who might be interested in looking at it!!!!!!!

 

fair comment aswell that you do a hell a lot of fishing (good on you) i myself do quite a bit but not as much as you , but not for the want of work and living 80 mile from the coast , but i do around 30 - 40 trips a year.

 

as for your opinion of challenge and the chieftain isn't very high in your books then fine, but don't knock someone/something until you've tried it, it's as good as me saying you're a s%*t angler (i don't know you never have probably never will) but that dosn't give me the right to slate you.

 

you say that the cod fishing is not the best down your neck of the woods, i'm sorry to here that. i can say something similar about the north east coast , as i've been boat fishing it for around 20 years and have seen a gradual decline of the bigger sized cod (they're still there but few and far between) that is why i chose the off-shore option with the chieftain as this type of angling :i won't say guarantees but it does provide a lot better class of fish and they are in abundance on just about every wreck you hit( 2 / 3 / 4 fish a time) this is why i am posting this message on this particular post Cod crisis? What cod crisis?.

 

 

i do believe that there is a cod crisis (to some extent) but i believe the crisis is closer to shore on the inside marks,

offshore if you're prepared to travel for them , then , they are there in abundance.

 

i'm sorry about your neck of the woods and do hope it picks up soon but you may be waiting quite some time .

 

with an election not far away it may be one of the last things on the governments to-do list., but we will see.

 

whether readers like it or not I WILL be posting pictures of our catch as and when we get out to the marks.

 

sorry if we've got off on the wrong foot BUDGIE but wish you all the best and TIGHT LINES.

 

Regards

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks MrM and Challenge. It seems then that we all agree that there is a problem with the cod fishing but only inshore? The Dungie boats incidently very rarely fish much further than the Varne and to a certain extent I suppose you could class most of our English Channel fishing as inshore.

 

I have absolutely no knowledge or experience of the North Sea but are you guys telling me that there is no decline in any year class of cod at all off shore? or only that it is still of a high standard compared to inshore?

 

Leon whats the SACN'c take on this?

Edited October 9, 2006 by BUDGIE

[Leon Roskilly]

Leon whats the SACN'c take on this?

 

Hi Budgie,

 

We are responding to a DEFRA consultation on the EU cod recovery plan for 2006/2007.

 

From the DEFRA consultation documents:

 

This article concludes that recovery of the North Sea Cod stock is achievable - even if reccruitment remains at current low levels - but that further reductions in fishing mortality would be needed to achieve stock recovery on a ten year timescale.

 

It acknowledges that changes in the North Sea environment, particularly warming, have had an effect and probably make a return to better recruitment less likely, but draws the conclusion that this means fishing mortality needs to be at a lower level than would otherwise be the case for the recovery to take place.

 

It also draws attention to the difficulties in monitoring recovery as stock assessments become uncertain at low stock sizes.

 

The 2005 report of the EU's Scientific, Technical and Economic Committee for Fisheries comes to similar conclusions

 

There is a huge amount of literature relating to the various problems that needs to be digested, and weighed alongside anecdotal observations from a number of sources (including here).

 

The number of issues, and their complexity, really need a full scale conference to debate, and even then not everyone would agree with the emerging consensus.

 

(and there have been a number of such conferences!)

 

Certainly a forum such as this where those with narrow viewpoints, lack of knowledge, particular agendas to pursue and personal issues etc., (and I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone in particular, nor excluding myself or SACN from that list) mix together, is hardly the ideal debating platform for such complex issues to come to any meaningful conclusions.

 

But broadly speaking we support the need for the Cod Recovery measures being proposed, and feel that every effort should be made to recover cod stocks as much as possible, for the benefit of the overall ecosysytem, and for this and future generations who have a right to be able to exploit North Sea cod.

 

A right that depends upon this generation's good husbandry of the sustainable natural resources now in our care, both individually and as a nation.

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks Leon.It has always frustrated me how the problem has never been recognised.When it was all starting to fall apart in my area particularly the magazines neither acknowledged or denied the problem it seemed like the entire sea angling world just stuck their heads in the sand er or more acurately perhaps the shingle!

 

These days when I talk to local young sea anglers about the cod fishing in the 70's and 80's they just look at me like Im stupid..........................................................................

.........................just like I did the old boys when they told me about the 50's and 60's.

 

Can the inshore fishing ever return to what it was? I really dont believe I will ever see it.

[mr motorola]

would the people involved with this forum debate be in agreement that the cod crisis is limited to inshore waters?

[Leon Roskilly]

Can the inshore fishing ever return to what it was? I really dont believe I will ever see it.

 

The 'gadoid explosion' of the '60s/early '70s was a fairly unique event, with very favourable spwaning and feeding conditions, and we are unlikely to see it's like again, not in our lifetimes.

 

However, the spawning stock biomass (SSB) of cod in the North Sea are now down to around 40,000 tonne, well short of the 70,000 tonne reckoned to be the minimum precautionary level for assured sustainability.

 

(although the distribution of that 40,000 tonne will mean that there are still places where there is a relative abundance of fish).

 

What saddens me is that we had a very favourable spawning year in 1996, and many anglers will remember the plentiful baby cod that promised a return to better cod fishing in the next few years.

 

If that year's spawning had been allowed to reach maturity, and spawn itself, it's possible that we could now be sustainably taking more tonnage of cod out of the N.sea now than presently swims in the N.sea!

 

But unfortunately, as soon as a proportion of those fish reached minimum landing size, they were 'harvested', with slightly more than 50% discards of fish still undersize.

 

And the best potential for recovering cod, and some decent recreational cod fishing for beach anglers as well as long distance charter boats, from that one spawning was lost for all time.

 

There are reports of more plentiful immature cod this year, and now we live in a different world.

 

Black fish on the scale of just a few years ago has be stamped down upon, the fleet has been reduced in number considerably (although 'technological creep' still keeps improving the fishing capability of existing vessels), and there is now general recognition of the trouble that cod are in throughout the EU and national fishery management regimes, and the scientific community, as well as ecologists and supermarkets being on the case.

 

So perhaps, just perhaps, lessons have been learned and there is now the political will not to make the same mistakes as in the past, throwing away everything that is possible for short term considerations.

 

But all is not certain.

 

It all depends upon maintaining political will against fierce and determined opposition from the 'sod the cod' lobby (why shouldn't we take advantage of fishing oppportunities for haddock, nephrops etc, when cod are proably doomed anyway?)

 

That 'political will' will not be strengthened by any discussions here.

 

But it will be strengthened by those who put pen to paper and write to MPs, supermarkets etc.

 

see: http://www.sacn.org.uk/Useful-Information-and-Contacts/

[Leon Roskilly]

would the people involved with this forum debate be in agreement that the cod crisis is limited to inshore waters?

 

 

There are places offshore where good catches of cod can be made.

 

 

But there are far fewer such places offshore than there should be.

[Dick Dastardly]

What saddens me is that we had a very favourable spawning year in 1996, and many anglers will remember the plentiful baby cod that promised a return to better cod fishing in the next few years.

 

I was going to bring up the subject of the Winter of 96! I thought that I was going to have to eat my words and things were going to be all right, we had just been through an unusually long slump in the cycle........but sadly I was wrong.I actually find discussing this quite sad and depressing so Im not going to anymore.Thanks for having me over here for a visit from the course and carp forums and good luck to you all.Will definately look in some more on the other sea threads.