1000,000 to 2000,000 RSA,s?

[Leon Roskilly]

Please remember when writing these things that not everything is as you experience it in your neck of the woods or the places you visit.

 

That's why the article points out that not everywhere is the same and there has to be flexibility in how different areas are managed !!!!

 

Sorry Leon I just dont understand what you mean.

 

I thought the golden mile were about stopping commercial activity ? and illegal netting etc inside of a mile ?

 

No the article shows how it's possible to not be overly restrictive, especially given local circumstances.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Im not actually clear in my own mind here what your individual issue is with this Ken. Is it the greed of the anglers ? the potential effect on the north sea cod stock, both ? or something else.

 

No it is very basic, getting ones house in order.

 

You can't keep throwing bricks at commercials when stuff like that appears.

 

One would have to assume that as they made such a good catch they weren't a bunch of plonkers doing a boozer party trip, i.e. they were some what experienced in what they were doing.

 

And that for me spells at least a few trips per year wrecking.

 

Now I arrived at that with my total lack of knowledge What do you think the commercials will think with all of their experience?

Edited October 1, 2006 by Ken Davison South Wales

[Norm B]

The relative proportion of fish we take is what its all about we can't, as anglers be demanding that the commercial fleet reduces its take and ourselves and just carry on as usual. obviously we can't reduce our take by 1000s of tinnes per year but we can reduce our take by a relative amount. We must show willing ourselves if we ever expect to be taken seriously by government and the commercial sector.

Angling pressure can and does have an effect on fish stocks(particularly in a localised area)and you have to realise that John Brennan,s boat is the only one doing this sort of fishing, at the moment, my biggest worry about this sort of "advertising" is before long there will be a whole flotilla of East coast charter vessels gearing up to offer these sort of trips and then we may very well see them having an effect on the fish stocks in the area. We have seen enough manmade destruction, to the environment, in the past and I find it amazing that we stil have this "we will sort it out when it becomes a problem" attitude to conservation, rather then a more pro-active one.

The TAC in different areas should be divided between RSA's and commercials. Private boats have perhaps a quota or bag limit of different species per angler a day, bag limit could be varied, depending on the health of the stock. Charter boats could have a share of an annual quota with a log book maintained by the skipper, quota hopping allowed so as the RSA quota is all used per annum. Commercials have their own quota per annum, divided between the boats registered in that area, again quota hopping allowed. It's not rocket science, it's just made to look too difficult so as nobody has to implement it or police it.

[glennk]

Sorry Ken I havent a clue where your coming from. Ive tried to understand but your speaking alien to me. I never have got my head round this house in order bit. If you are on the right side of the law and not doing any damage to fishing stocks then why is your house out of order.

 

If you turned round to me and said - I dont like this because its greed on the part of the individuals then I could attempot to see your point. If you said their damaging fish stocks I would see your point but argue that they actually arent. I dont like the feel of the house in order thing. Pl,ays too far into the hands of the green enviro freeks for me. Before long we wont fish at all, we wont dig and klll worms, we wont murder crabs and we wont put sharp hooks through the mouths of didtressed fish. But our house will be in order.

 

Also worth a mention- Challenge does not throw bricks at the commercials, he is very pro commercial fishing.

 

I only through them at them who:

1. Break the law
   
2. Kill and waste immature fish
   

I am actually quite pleased we have a commercial fishing industry. I would prefer if it was all done from small boats by small time operators but that is a different story entirely. You can put any slant on it you want Ken you have no idea about the scale of things on this coast.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Sorry Ken I havent a clue where your coming from. Ive tried to understand but your speaking alien to me. I never have got my head round this house in order bit. If you are on the right side of the law and not doing any damage to fishing stocks then why is your house out of order.

 

If you turned round to me and said - I dont like this because its greed on the part of the individuals then I could attempot to see your point. If you said their damaging fish stocks I would see your point but argue that they actually arent. I dont like the feel of the house in order thing. Pl,ays too far into the hands of the green enviro freeks for me. Before long we wont fish at all, we wont dig and klll worms, we wont murder crabs and we wont put sharp hooks through the mouths of didtressed fish. But our house will be in order.

 

Also worth a mention- Challenge does not throw bricks at the commercials, he is very pro commercial fishing.

 

I only through them at them who:

1. Break the law
   
2. Kill and waste immature fish
   

I am actually quite pleased we have a commercial fishing industry. I would prefer if it was all done from small boats by small time operators but that is a different story entirely. You can put any slant on it you want Ken you have no idea about the scale of things on this coast.

 

I really don't know if the law is being broken and if they are consuming all the fish caught without selling it then they are not breaking any laws. But from where I sit looking at all those fillets if the post had said these pics formed part of a commercial catch I would have accepted that as a fact. As it is I have to assume these guys go out on a few trips per year making the same sort of catches, and if I am correct then it all looks very commercial even if it only finances the trips. This is why I use the term getting our house in order, the picture presented by this sort of activity does not look good and could very easily be used against us and distorted out of proportion. As to whether it damages cod stocks I am not qualified to say but again from what I have been told the answer is no.

 

When I stated throwing bricks at commercials I meant us and no one specifically, the royal "WE".

 

I would agree 100% with your last statement relating to small boats, but I am not entirely out of touch with your local activities You have made sure of that and other news is gathered from a wide spectrum.

 

My statement on the Golden Mile was based on the full proposal which I have read word for word and covers a wide range of ifs and buts thus safe guarding activities which do not present a problem with inshore fish stocks and is able to deal with any local requirements.

 

Your area from what you say does not have the same problems as some of the areas I fish and a fair proportion of the damage done to inshore fish stocks in those areas is not carried out 100% by full time commercial fishermen, far from it. As I see the Golden Mile it is like a walled city and within that wall various activities take place in an orderly fashion, one might think big brother stuff but I see it more as little brother.

Edited October 3, 2006 by Ken Davison South Wales

[Guest challenge]

GLENK

Thanks for your support on this matter, but I disagree with you saying that putting those pictures of fillets “was not a wise move” on the contrary; I believe people should know what fish is being caught in the North Sea, before they repeatedly announce that cod fishing is doomed in the North Sea.

KEN DAVISON.

What are we supposed to do? Pretend our anglers don’t have fantastic days fishing in case it upsets the conservationist? Who will then accuse our anglers of being commercial fishermen?

There is plenty of cod being caught in the North Sea at times when the conditions allow.

Be it inshore or offshore, what people have to accept is that thousands of RSA know this and therefore will keep coming back for more.

If you’re not happy with that because commercial fishermen will tar all RSA with the same brush and weaken your case in your endeavour to rid the world of commercial fishermen then tuff KEN. Fortunately we don’t have that problem because John (skipper of chieftain) and I never throw stones, not in the direction of the commercial fishing fleet and certainly never in the direction of our own fleet.

regards.

[The doctor]

For fear of getting wrapped up in an argument (which is the last thing I want).

 

Glenn, I'd check your figures; 8000 stone equates to 50 ton and as good as they are at catching, I doubt even the Scottish lads could catch that over a short trip, notwithstanding the capacity of the boats.

 

The amount of people who net inside a mile here is probably 0.

 

Obviously there is no way of knowing where the netters shoot their gears, but according to the latest figures I have for the area (south Gare to Robin Hoods Bay), there are 18 vessels netting and 12 long lining. There are a further 26 vessels netting down to the Wash, this does not include the salmon fishermen, nor does it include the 5 or 6 beach netters who now have a permit to net all year round for bass and cod, in fact anything they catch other than salmonids. The NESFC have recently initiated a trial sole fishery that will allow netters to net inside the 10m depth contour. This fishery appears to have been successful this year, there are 4 or 5 boats involved in the trial each allowed 1200m of net. I would guess that this will become a permit fishery in the near future. The problem is how do you limit effort, there are 57 licensed vessels that are able to fish this type of gear in the area, who gets a permit and who doesn't, how do you draw a distinction, there is no proven track record as it is a new fishery. The general concensus is that all vessels who apply will have to be given a permit, that amounts to 68 kilometres of netting within the 10m depth contour from Bridlington down towards Spurn Point. this will effectively kill shore angling and remove inordinate amounts of RSA target fish. Even worse, it may severly impact the northerly passage of bass, so those few bass you've seen in recent years Glenn, could have been your last as they almost to a fish, migrate within the 10m depth contour along this stretch.

 

Tell me then, that because you don't think there are any nets set along your coast that it won't affect you.

 

One other point, when the cod migrate inshore during winter, do you think that they are more likely to be concentrated inshore/nearshore than they would further off, if so, do you think that the netters don't know this. If there are signs of a recovery in cod within the eastern North Sea, how long do you think that netting effort will remain relatively low. Just to put this into perspective, the figures for netting effort for 95-96 were similar to those described above c.18, the following year (1997) there 54 vessels netting the good 1996 year class, with a further 81 netters working down to the Wash, by 2000, the numbers had declined to 19 and 48 respectively. Fishing effort is relative to fish availability, all the while fish stocks and populations fluctuate, then so will effort, it doesn't necessarily follow that because effort is low now, that that will be the case this or next season.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Doc.

[stavey]

About this here golden mile proposal, as glen has pointed out and a few others, it is not going to be that beneficial for their area and i would like to ad and agree quite a lot of the country, a lot of the country's coast north of the wash has plenty of rocky area's inhibiting commercial practices to the point where they dont suffer nothing like the pressures of extensive netting up to the groynes of the beaches like area's where i am in the south, so its clear to all that whats good for one area is not for the other (leaving politics aside)

 

All we need do is to support each other nationaly for the proposals that are beneficial for each other's area for example glen's big beef and a lot of the anglers around that area is this wasteful slaughter of undersized cod during the herring spawning period which i am with him on this and so should any angler in this country should be also, down here it is the miles and miles of netting right up to the beaches and trawling (because of the nature of the shoreline and easy accessability with no risk to nets trawls etc) that is killing what little bit of sport we may have, now the golden mile for us would make a huge difference and i for one would support it 100% and again i hope so would every other angler in this country.

 

It is time to get our heads together for each other, i trust glen/ken/steve/sam and any other legit rsa, (and i hope the feelings mutual) more than any sfc or defra donkey so is it not time to put aside the silly arguements on what is good for you in your area is what i am telling you from another area is.

 

I would like to end with a pledge i am not going to from now on poke my nose in any one's area's issues (apart from my area ofcourse) unless i am asked (even johns long charters from whitby)by that area's rsa's, otherwise this only creates division and a stagnancy to evolve and no one gets nowhere, cheers.................

[big_cod]

For fear of getting wrapped up in an argument (which is the last thing I want).

 

Glenn, I'd check your figures; 8000 stone equates to 50 ton and as good as they are at catching, I doubt even the Scottish lads could catch that over a short trip, notwithstanding the capacity of the boats.

 

 

Doc.

 

Hi doc i think glenks figures maybe somewhere near i know for a fact that one of our local boats which has been fishing off the norwegian coast this summer which has had some excellent fishing and they were landing into peterhead if i am not mistaken this boat which is under 60ft in lenth can carry around 400 boxes of fish, now the 90 ft boats which will have a very much larger fish room i am sure would be able to carry between 600- 800 boxes maybe challenge would be able to clarify this as he was trawling for quite a number of years.

Edited October 3, 2006 by big_cod

[wtr2]

Hi doc i think glenks figures maybe somewhere near i know for a fact that one of our local boats which has been fishing off the norwegian coast this summer which has had some excellent fishing and they were landing into peterhead if i am not mistaken this boat which is under 60ft in lenth can carry around 400 boxes of fish, now the 90 ft boats which will have a very much larger fish room i am sure would be able to carry between 600- 800 boxes maybe challenge would be able to clarify this as he was trawling for quite a number of years.

 

 

You hit it on the head Big Cod/GlennK