PAC FURY OVER NUDD'S CALL FOR PIKE CULL

[Dick Dastardly]

Slightly off topic but may be of interest to those just starting to understand the biomass/prey/predator balance.

 

In waters where Zander have become well established the Pike (despite still technically being the apex predator) seems to suffer!

 

All though this does make a mockery of the commonly held balance beliefs (as correctly stated by Leon) it must be remembered that zander are a reletavely newly introduced alien species and it will take many thousands of years for them to be "absorbed" into the eco system and a true balance once again found.

[Leon Roskilly]

Slightly off topic but may be of interest to those just starting to understand the biomass/prey/predator balance.

 

In waters where Zander have become well established the Pike (despite still technically being the apex predator) seems to suffer!

 

All though this does make a mockery of the commonly held balance beliefs (as correctly stated by Leon) it must be remembered that zander are a reletavely newly introduced alien species and it will take many thousands of years for them to be "absorbed" into the eco system and a true balance once again found.

 

 

Grey Squirrels / Red Squirrels

 

Zander are a low light level predator, able to target prey very well in low light conditions and murky water.

 

(Just look at their eyes to understand the kind of conditions that they are adapted to best - their close cousins are called walleyes)

 

So, they will outcompete pike where there is little cover and the water is not too clear.

 

Pike on the other hand are ambush predators, hiding in cover and darting out to grab prey seen in clear water.

 

 

Put some zander into a weedy, clear-water, gravel pit where pike hunt and you won't see them again.

 

 

Put them into a muddy drain with no features, and any pike that were struggling to make a living will find life increasingly hard.

Edited October 22, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[James P]

Sorry if I seem to be a bit harsh on you James but your post brings up some relevant and interesting points.

 

Not at all Budgie. I'm not here to please everyone, just to give my views and i'm always open to the opinions of others.

 

I find it interesting reading what people are saying on this subject, and it sounds as if the answer is a complicated one.

 

Obviously i'm viewing this from a match anglers point of view - but not the stereotypical 'lets bash 'em over the head and chuck them in a ditch' type which I have had to confront several times to stop this happening!!! I'm coming to this point of view from fishing the Bridgwater and Taunton canal in Somerset. I'm sure it never used to be this bad for catching roach (my favourite species). Nearly every swim has a resident pike, most around the 2-4lb mark, and it's almost impossible to fish along the canal without the customary swirls, grabs and frenzied attacks.

 

I'm simply saying that even the Pike are becoming stunted and have been the same size for over 5 years because there are so many of them competing for food.

 

Does the fact that the canal is 20 miles long have an effect on the pike population, as the fish are free to move up and down at will? If the fish were in a gravel pit or pond will the fish will become accustomed to the size and breed accordingly to the size of the venue. With the canal being so long can a nomadic Pike population cause an explosion in numbers due to the fact it has so much water and thinks it needs to increase its presence?

 

James P

[Grandma]

With the canal being so long can a nomadic Pike population cause an explosion in numbers due to the fact it has so much water and thinks it needs to increase its presence?

 

 

It all comes down to biomas. In simplistic terms the 'prey' fish population will sustain a certain weight of pike. i.e. if a water has enough prey fish to support 100lb of pike, this could take the form of four 25lbers or fifty 2lbers.

 

It sounds like the big fish on your water have been killed.

[gozzer]

It all comes down to biomas. In simplistic terms the 'prey' fish population will sustain a certain weight of pike. i.e. if a water has enough prey fish to support 100lb of pike, this could take the form of four 25lbers or fifty 2lbers.

 

It sounds like the big fish on your water have been killed.

 

 

But there again Grandma, it appears it's not as simple as that;

 

The problem for the fishery is that the smaller the pike, the more the pike biomass consumes, so 1,000 lbs of 5lb pike represents more and hungrier mouths than 1,000lbs of 10lb pike.

 

And a 1,000lbs of 2lbers will eat more than 1,000 lbs of 5lbers, and 1lbers more than 2lbers etc

 

confusing ain't it?

[Grandma]

But there again Grandma, it appears it's not as simple as that;

confusing ain't it?

 

 

I did say it was a simplistic explanation!

 

I was actually trying to make the point that the explosion of jacks on the canal are more likely to be due to pike stocks being interfered with rather than nomadic fish. i.e. remove 4 25lbers and you'll end up with 50 2lbers.

 

An explosion of jacks could equally be due to an increase in available prey fish.

[smudger]

You've just proven my point, with this post, smudger.

 

Post Deleted by Smudger

Edited October 23, 2006 by smudger

[Dick Dastardly]

It sounds like the big fish on your water have been killed.

 

Quite possibly so,but more like "a lot of the bigger fish" rather than all.The Somerset levels are renowned for still being a strong hold of the "chuck em up the bank" brigade.

 

Once the balance on a large water has been destroyed it is nigh on impossible for man to intervene and correct it in a short period of time.

 

You would think that removing the excess numbers of small jacks and replacing the larger fish would be the answer...well it would if it was possible! In all of the many many situations where Ive been involved with the transfer of pike (admittedly mainly from trout reservoirs) they have never adapted to their new homes living only a few more sad years at best. Even if pike were made available from similar waters who would want to give up such fish?

 

Leaving nature to take its course and eventually regain the balance is often the only way.BUT this can take a long long time and in some cases never (in a human life span anyway).So the answer to me seems quite simple-

 

DONT INTERFERE WITH NATURES BALANCE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Edited October 22, 2006 by BUDGIE

[yorkio]

I'm not a News of the World reader, so I never saw the original article, but I'm curious to learn whether he referred to the stir that last week's piece has caused in today's paper. Anyone? (I am right in thinking he's got a weekly column in the NOTW, right?)

[gozzer]

The post was not a knee jerk reaction? i have felt that for many a year,i mainly lure fish but also fish for roach dace etc. as a angler i wish to see a good balance in nature. while i suspect you as a match fisherman

wish to see your bank balance in a healthy state.one of us is a angler, the other nothing more than an business man trying to make profit!!

 

There you go again Smudger, making uninformed assumptions. I am not a match angler, just one who is fed up with the constant back biting that plagues angling. I fish mainly alone now, after nearly 50 years of listening to each branch of angling having a dig at each other. I did matchfish regularly when I was younger, but have not done so for over 25yrs. It was the only way I could get to fish certain waters in those days. I made some good friends doing so, I had reasonable success at club and league level, and learned a lot that stood me in good stead over the years. I had a spell at fishing for selected species, but that was not my thing. I now fish for what ever takes my fancy, I am not stuck in any camp. Please do not try to 'pigeon hole' me because I do try and keep an open mind about my angling, as I hope has been shown in my posts on AN. If an angler from what ever discipline, makes a comment that is outrageous or down right stupid, then I will take that individual to task as opposed to the discipline he represents. I hope that makes it easier for you to see where I am coming from, in this, and any future threads in which we 'cross swords'.

 

John.

 

 

 

DONT INTERFERE WITH NATURES BALANCE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

 

 

Sorry Budgie but I'm at it again. I believe that the very fact that we go fishing, the baits, baiting methods, introducing species etc, has and still does interfere with that balance. It's the butterflies wings effect, what ever we do, can, and does in some way alter that balance to some degree.