the clock is running out

[wurzel]

Yes changes need to be made, no doubt about that. Don't hold your breaths though I've no faith in governments and those protecting fish stocks - these types of reports are nothing new - read the bbc archives pages, you'll find lots of similar stuff dating back 10 or more years. Interestingly I was reading a book on fishing from Whitby and way back in the 80's local Skipper Jim Leadley was prophecising bad times ahead. We seem destined to kill the planet - Its like we know where were going but greed just keeps us on that road. Leaders need to be strong and sadly We have Mr Bradshawe who seems to care more about a few jobs that could easily be replaced rather than the survival of something much bigger than people.

 

Interesting how the idea of protected areas is sneeking into these things. Are the governments getting people ready for Marine national parks.

 

Hello Glenn

 

So would the whitby charter fleet stay in business if they stopped all cod fishing?

Or don't you care about a few jobs that could be easily replaced (ask Big Cod if he could easily do something else) after all the survival of cod is much bigger than just people.

[groyne bandit]

dont help maters though ,,when the bbc interview a cornish trawler owner ,,,,,who states ive seen no difference in catchs over the last 30 years ,,,mind u he did only look about 35 ,,,,,all the electronic gadgets are guna be the killer,,,,,

[JRT]

Just to add to my early post. Yes overfishing IS responsible for depletion of fish stocks. BUT sensational unproven headlines just undermine the real facts and our cause in the end. Just like Y2K etc. eventually the public will switch off and the politicians that respond with knee jerk reactions will lose interest to.

 

Just support this:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6115644.stm

 

The green band wagon is getting silly. Yes it is serious and real but we need real long-term measured based on fact not media hype.

[steve good]

Hi Wurzle,

 

For starters you are a capitalist owning your own business but what ever your political thoughts are I am afraid you like 99.9999% of the people on this planet think that things ain’t that bad.

 

It’s not just cod stocks or fish stocks or the marine eco-system which is at stake, it is not whether there is or is not global warming all these things can be fudged one way or the other simply because of their complex nature.

 

There is one thing however which cannot be fudged which will have a devastating effect on all of the above arguments giving some positives and some negatives.

 

We are rapidly running out of oil, peak oil production will be reached on or about 2010 and that it written in slabs of stone.

 

From that point on whether we like it or not all of our lives will change, fishing for cod or any other species will be priced out of the market; for the fish it will be a positive, for the fishermen it will be a disaster.

 

Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) it will not just be fishermen who will suffer, everyone will and for the first time in ten decades we will be sat back on our nether regions having to take notice of not only scientist but nature.

 

Over the last ten decades we have sucked the live blood out of this planet without giving it a second thought, but in a few years time all that will change we will no longer be arguing about cod stocks we will be to busy fighting to survive.

 

I can see you now mate sat back and laughing your head of and to be honest as stated above so will 99.9999% of the world.

 

hi ken

 

QUOTE / We are rapidly running out of oil, peak oil production

 

thats why the usa and the uk went to war with iraq, they told US it was because of weapons of mast destruction that they knew did not exist, they have wrecked that country, and the service men, and there loved ones, and the civilians of iraq SUFFER because of that there decision, they control our fisheries in the same way, what chance do we stand, anglers or commercials, i rest my case

 

steve

[Jaffa]

Hi & welcome to the forum barry, you're not neils son are you ?

 

ave a look at this link, you'll have to scroll down a bit to see what the danes are doing to the sand eels.

 

http://www.idw.org/html/conservation.html

 

someone compared it to plowing up all the grass in a field & then wondering why the cows are starving to death.

 

quote

 

"GREED THAT MUST BE STOPPED

 

 

The British Government’s record of lack of concern, or apparent indifference to the needs of other inhabitants of our planet apart from man reached a new level recently when it was announced that it had given a £100,000 grant to Bio Mar, a Danish subsidiary of the Norwegian giant Norsk Hydro, to build a £6 million fish food factory in Grangemouth (see Daily Telegraph 23 Sept 1994). One of the main sources of raw materials for this mammoth plant is to be the humble sand eel which is being removed from the sea in unimaginable quantities - millions of tons - yes, millions of tons - by INDUSTRIAL FISHING - mainly by the Danes. What is happening to this fish meal you may ask? Some of it is used as fertiliser, pig and chicken feed thereby adding even more to the huge mountain of excess food Europe already produces. The surplus is burned as fuel in power stations.

 

 

 

cartoon by Rico

 

 

 

In other words we are selectively removing a vital link in a food chain that supports millions of sea creatures because in the short term it is cheaper than using equivalent materials from the land.

 

The result of this monumental abuse of the sea made possible by industrial technology is already becoming apparent. Sea bird population and sea trout stocks are collapsing. No one can predict what the overall effect will be, but common sense indicates that it spells disaster on an unprecedented scale. One obvious group at risk are the dolphins that eat the herrings that eat the sand eels. One of the great wonders of nature that we in Britain are all privileged to have around our coasts is spectacular colonies of sea birds. Even if we don’t see them we all know, deep down, that somehow they add to the richness to our lives.

 

 

TAKING SAND EELS OUT OF THE FOOD CHAIN IS UTTER MADNESS"

 

 

Hi Ziggy.

 

If that organisations attitude to the truth on figures is anything to go by then I would not trust a word they say.

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the sandeel fishery, the figures being quoted are pure fiction. Millions of tonnes?! aye right. More like an average of about 750, 000 tonnes, now down to under 300,000 tonnes, despite scientific advice setting the quota at twice that (last year).

 

The Daily Telegraphs "fisheries expert" Charles Clover has got 750 thousand and 750 million mixed up a couple of times (all typos im sure ) in his pieces; would it be too cynical to imagine that this group may actually know very little and just be quoting from duff media info?

 

Surely not !

 

PS,

 

I got curious about the whole subject of the Danes burning sandeels for fuel when JB brought it up before. Found it hard to find much info online ( it happened pre widespread use of the internet) but what little i saw suggested it was used in community power plants that were being powered by waste. Apparently the introduction of a small amount of oil helped them work much better; to a danish town landing sandeel i guess it makes sense to use their local resource?

 

Not sure if i have got this right but i do wonder why the greens have kept it vague

 

Not like them to miss a chance.

Edited November 4, 2006 by Jaffa

[steve good]

Hello Ken

 

Quote

We are rapidly running out of oil, peak oil production will be reached on or about 2010 and that it written in slabs of stone.

 

From that point on whether we like it or not all of our lives will change, fishing for cod or any other species will be priced out of the market; for the fish it will be a positive, for the fishermen it will be a disaster.

 

Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) it will not just be fishermen who will suffer, everyone will and for the first time in ten decades we will be sat back on our nether regions having to take notice of not only scientist but nature.

 

Over the last ten decades we have sucked the live blood out of this planet without giving it a second thought, but in a few years time all that will change we will no longer be arguing about cod stocks we will be to busy fighting to survive.

 

Well that will sort out the carbon emissions then.

 

I don't see why we should have any trouble surviving, there will be , already is, alternatives, there is too much money in oil revenue at the moment to allow development of alternatives.

 

hi peter

 

QUOTE / From that point on whether we like it or not all of our lives will change, fishing for cod or any other species will be priced out of the market; for the fish it will be a positive, for the fishermen it will be a disaster.

 

iceland will supply cod to this country because unlike the EU and this country they have and run well manageed fisheries policies

 

regards steve

[Jaffa]

Just to add to my early post. Yes overfishing IS responsible for depletion of fish stocks. BUT sensational unproven headlines just undermine the real facts and our cause in the end. Just like Y2K etc. eventually the public will switch off and the politicians that respond with knee jerk reactions will lose interest to.

 

Just support this:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6115644.stm

 

The green band wagon is getting silly. Yes it is serious and real but we need real long-term measured based on fact not media hype.

 

 

[glennk]

That's an interesting article. Obviously as a scientist the guy knows what he's talking about. It got me thinking though.

 

Is it useful to build things up ? use the words catastrophe etc ? At present no one cares about global warming but as the guy says its real and we will see significant changes by 2100 (or our children and definately grandchildren will). Perhaps its a good idea to predict catastrophie - maybe its a kick up the arse that society needs ? I've witnessed first hand in here what predicting catastrophie for fish stocks can do to opinion - Research advice on cod stocks is barely any different to that offered 6-10 years back yet recent reports on the news have you all up in arms with anglers attacking fellow anglers for daring to target and take cod.

 

Catastrophy theory works so why not use it ?

Edited November 5, 2006 by glennk

[barry luxton]

Hi & welcome to the forum barry, you're not neils son are you ?

 

Hi Ziggy,

 

Many thanks for the welcome. Thank you for the information regarding factory fishing, I'm not sure of the actuall amounts shovelled up. Some are suggesting a den't in the stocks, some are suggesting depleting the sand eel stocks having a detriment effect on the rest of the food chain, birds, fish, mammels etc. If it is near what i fear, 1 millon tons to the danes, 400,000 for the rest then i have a problem believing the sustaianability of this stock. I'm sure there are alternatives i.e. growing oilseed to burn in power stations, some other feed for fish farms, fertilizer, without the need to remove what the cod feed on.

 

I'm not Neils son by the way, just a concerned rca who takes his fishing more seriously than work.

 

regards barry

[Leon Roskilly]

Just like Y2K etc.

 

 

Actually Y2K was potentially very serious.

 

My company spent millions on making sure that all of our systems were Y2K compliant, and found many instances of potentially serious problems which were fixed and thoroughly tested.

 

An awful lot of extra hours were put in by IT staff (myself included) to ensure that everything would work OK.

 

On the day, there were a few glitches, but the teams were ready and moved in very quickly.

 

Disaster on a widespread scale was averted because the problems were recognised in advance, appropriate action and spend was authorised and actioned.

 

The fact that Y2K changover went so smoothly was because of the hype beforehand that panicked directors and managers into spending more than they would have otherwise.

 

The press might have been dissapointed that Armageddon was averted, and so was many of the public left wondering what all the fuss had been about, buty I for one feel rightly proud of the efforts of my colleagues worldwide in the amount of effort put in to ensure that all went (relatively) smoothly on the day.

 

 

Now we need to do something about fish stocks!