An Alliance Between Anglers And Commercials?

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Hi AUTUMN,

 

I worked my latter years in quality assurance and part of that was auditing manuals and work procedures it contained.

 

On a number of occassions I saw procedures which to me did not ring true or comply with the standards involved.

 

With that information I could have sent the manual back marking the areas which I considered were in non-compliance OR I could go and look for myself and get a better understanding of the situation.

 

On a number of occasions these visits cast a completely different light on what was happening.

 

Some times it actually complied but had been badly scripted, some times full compliance was un-achievable to circomstances on site, but an acceptable compromise under the conditions which prevailed on site was reached and the actual standard of work was acceptable.

 

Some times it was a total cockup and things had to be changed and that could only be done by discussion, simply saying that is wrong put it right does not work.

 

I look at what Wurzle post and he has a vast knowledge over a large area of our coastal waters, some times his opinions based on this knowledge will be wrong or what we may think is wrong either way they should not be dismissed as total rubbish.

 

Quite a bit of what I was taught in my early days has since been disproved and the people who made these mistakes through a lack of knowledge at the time had to accept that things had changed.

 

Both Wurzle and a good number of us will have to swallow that pill whether we like it or not.

 

I learn every day I read on here and other sites, and will continue to do so hopefully for sometime to come, hopefully learning right upto the day I pop my cloggs.

[Guest @AUTUMN@]

Point taken.

[JB]

Your not from "up north" , but from Whitby Weird, Wonderful Whitby sounds a great place, but what is true there is surely not true everywhere? Some of the stuff you and Big Cod come out with is way beyond anything i have experienced or understand. At one point Big Cod claimed the whitby trawlers were landing the equivalent of the entire east coast scots fleet! OK , numbers are easy enough to mix up, and non of us are perfect at that, but IMHO i think the pair of you lack any wider perspective at times?

 

How many English ports developed the kind of fleet whitby did? Not many as far as I know. I look at your posts and recognise so much that is Scottish east coast; i recognise the rockhoppers, pair trawlers, the kind of cod fishing you do. I just don't recognise that hatred between sea anglers and commercials that you have. It just aint like that around here IME.

 

I don't agree with a lot of Wurzel says, but some of what he says is true, and you choose to ignore the science and HIS personal experience on that.

 

Don't agree with a lot of what you say but would love to see you make the trip north

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris,

“Weird, wonderful Whitby”. I guess the same can be said of most of the small Scottish fishing villages. Whitby certainly is (or rather, was) weird - possibly due to its isolation. It’s a lot less weird now, due to a large influx of people from the “outside world”, including myself. I first came to live in Whitby in 1968.

 

In my opinion, the relationships between anglers and commercials in Whitby are probably the same as they are anywhere else. Big Cod and @Autumn@ make a great double act, but their views do not necessarily represent those of all of us in Whitby. As for a feeling of “anti-angling” from commercial fishermen, I have yet to experience it in Whitby.

 

In the time I have been in Whitby, I have witnessed, and been involved in, the rise and eventual decline of both the trawling and the charter angling industries.

 

Whitby in 1968 had a small fleet of low-powered trawlers/seine-netters. In the winter they would trawl, in the summer they would mostly seine net. This small fleet eventually graduated into a large fleet of high powered trawlers, working rough ground gear, mostly within the 3 mile limit. It still amazes me that the inshore ground stood so much hammer for so long. Now that large fleet has degraded into a far smaller fleet of boats, many of which are diversifying into jobs like multi rig prawning, with the style of net that excludes most of the whitefish by-catch. Alternative work, like guard jobs for the oil companies (which appear to be here to stay for at least the foreseeable future), has considerably reduced pressure on fish stock, and will continue to do so. I believe that if there were another decommissioning scheme, it would almost wipe out the remaining inshore trawling off Whitby.

 

As for the charter angling business, it went from a few commercial cobles taking anglers on weekends and holiday times, to a fleet of approximately 50 boats full time in the summer season (with an overall combined daily catch on fine days of approximately 1000 stone of cod); and then back to the small fleet we have today. Most of the remaining charter skippers do the job as a “lifestyle”. Few do it as their main living. So, all in all, Whitby has possibly evolved in a very similar way to the east coast Scottish ports.

 

Just a titbit for Big Cod and @Autumn@ (although, knowing Whitby’s grapevine, you may already have heard): I was speaking to a trawler skipper the other day, and he told me that, at certain times of the year, a large portion of their catch is made up of a small (but legal-sized) grade of codlings. In the interests of conservation, the trawlermen got together and put it to DEFRA that they would be prepared to accept a closure on fishing during these “small fish” periods to allow the fish to grow. It is not possible to lay trawlers up for any length of time without eventual bankruptcy, so they were asking for a basic recompense to keep their businesses alive. He told me the requested recompense was less than DEFRA spends on policing them, so it would appear to be a good all-round solution. Unfortunately, thus far, DEFRA has shown no interest in their proposal.

JB

[Ian Burrett]

Just a titbit for Big Cod and @Autumn@ (although, knowing Whitby’s grapevine, you may already have heard): I was speaking to a trawler skipper the other day, and he told me that, at certain times of the year, a large portion of their catch is made up of a small (but legal-sized) grade of codlings. In the interests of conservation, the trawlermen got together and put it to DEFRA that they would be prepared to accept a closure on fishing during these “small fish” periods to allow the fish to grow. It is not possible to lay trawlers up for any length of time without eventual bankruptcy, so they were asking for a basic recompense to keep their businesses alive. He told me the requested recompense was less than DEFRA spends on policing them, so it would appear to be a good all-round solution. Unfortunately, thus far, DEFRA has shown no interest in their proposal.

JB

 

Hi John

 

The Scottish trawlers skippers also asked the same thing when during the cod ban of a few years ago they were catching and discarding hundreds of immature Haddock.

 

I asked in an ealier post What is the difference between this and Farmers set aside?

 

Perhaps RSA should write to Defra and support the proposal

[Guest @AUTUMN@]

Hi Chris,

“Weird, wonderful Whitby”. I guess the same can be said of most of the small Scottish fishing villages. Whitby certainly is (or rather, was) weird - possibly due to its isolation. It’s a lot less weird now, due to a large influx of people from the “outside world”, including myself. I first came to live in Whitby in 1968.

 

LOL That is debateable, Dont get me started on that one John. Its is always nice to see nice genuine people arrive and set up home from anywhere in the world. Makes my blood boil to think how many people from away bought 2nd third and 4th homes in the town and brought about the situation where young families cant find a house to live in whilst half of the old town buildings around the harbour are stood empty for large parts of the year. Id be happy if that type of person stayed well clear of the town and left us to our weirdness.

 

Anyway on with the fishing debate. I had heared a slightly different rhumour but it did involve tieing up for certain periods of time. Certainly makes good sense. All the undersized fish would get saved too.

 

p.s. I like your double act line . Nice one. Little and Large or Laurel and Hardy???

[Guest binatone]

Hi John

 

The Scottish trawlers skippers also asked the same thing when during the cod ban of a few years ago they were catching and discarding hundreds of immature Haddock.

 

I asked in an ealier post What is the difference between this and Farmers set aside?

 

Perhaps RSA should write to Defra and support the proposal

There you go stavey, at least that is a start, if you can get commercials and recreational to do just one thing together then your thread has been worth while. Well done.

As for a name for the double act? Dumb and dumber springs to mind.

I have knot heard much from @autumn@ and little ling for some time? Must have been busy what with pantomime season just round the corner. But then again how long does it take to sort out who is going to be the front and who is going to be the rear of a hoarse.

You asked for that mate.

[Guest @AUTUMN@]

There you go stavey, at least that is a start, if you can get commercials and recreational to do just one thing together then your thread has been worth while. Well done.

As for a name for the double act? Dumb and dumber springs to mind.

I have knot heard much from @autumn@ and little ling for some time? Must have been busy what with pantomime season just round the corner. But then again how long does it take to sort out who is going to be the front and who is going to be the rear of a hoarse.

You asked for that mate.

 

 

LOL. I suppose I did.

 

Weve been fishing m8, catches have been poor but I believe the weather to be a factor in that. Lets see what happens this week with a northerly swell and low water. I hope to be reporting the catch of a big cod or at least one bigger than that caught by little Ling (or is it Dumber).

[JB]

Hi John

 

The Scottish trawlers skippers also asked the same thing when during the cod ban of a few years ago they were catching and discarding hundreds of immature Haddock.

 

I asked in an ealier post What is the difference between this and Farmers set aside?

 

Perhaps RSA should write to Defra and support the proposal

 

Hi Ian and @Autumn@,

To me, it seems a good idea for RSA to support commercials in such a scheme. As you said Ian, “set aside” for fishermen.

 

Those of us on this forum who are self-employed know very well that if we stop working we don’t earn any money; and eventually, unless we liquidise our assets, we are likely to go bankrupt. Fishing is just the same as any other business. I believe fishermen know perfectly well the state of their own personal part of the industry. Some like Wurzel and Binatone may be perfectly happy with it. But the ones that may be less happy with their futures have no alternatives. They have to keep on fishing in the same way, and hope for better times to come. If they give up voluntarily, they will lose everything and never be able to get back into fishing.

 

Most members of this forum agree that they don’t want to see British commercial fishing end. There are no longer enough commercial fishermen for our government to take notice of, not enough votes. But combined with anglers a little more pressure may be exerted and a mutual benefit may be achieved.

Does anyone know (perhaps Leon?) if there has ever been any official liaison between commercials’ and anglers’ representatives?

By the way @Autumn@, when do you become @Winter@? Do you change at the solstice or is it something to do with fishing? The old fishermen, who used to fish seasonally, always said winter starts at “Gunpowder Plot”. That’s when they started the winter long line season.

As you are @AMFAS@, I trust you are very careful around men called Henry!

JB

[Ian Burrett]

with pantomime season just round the corner. But then again how long does it take to sort out who is going to be the front and who is going to be the rear of a hoarse.

You asked for that mate.

 

OOhhh Nooo he didn't

Edited November 12, 2005 by Ian Burrett

[wurzel]

Quote

It would make such a difference to anglers if there wasn't any netting within a mile and its not too much to ask.

You see its just another case of commercial fishermen not wanting to give anything to anglers.

Thats the attitude I was talking about that will make any sort of alliance impossible.

 

Come on Bob! two out of three ain't bad.

Is your idea of an alliance, you state the terms, we accept no arguement.