An Alliance Between Anglers And Commercials?

[Captain Sensible]

Stavey, I'm very sorry to read that you are giving up on the subject of an alliance.

 

From what I have read on this forum, there seems to be a general agreement between the commercial and angling posters that, while there may be differences in approach to managing fish stocks, there is agreement that they could me managed better and that a combined voice when dealing with government would be more effective.

 

There has been the usual sniping and point scoring which you would expect by individuals of such a group of individuals.

 

Have you considered contacting both the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations and the equivalent body representing angling interests?

 

I personally hope that you don’t give up what you have started and keep us posted about any progress you make.

 

C.S.

[Guest @AUTUMN@]

I suppose in a way you should be glad wurzel, Binatone etc come here and talk to you. The majority of thier colleagues think you are an insuperior breed with no right to even voice an opinion. Have they got a shock coming though.

[Bob Jerunkel]

"So if I agreed to catch half of what I need to stay in business, burn all my gill nets, stop trawling because it damages coral, if I can find a suitable method that you are happy with and I agree to do it out side of 1 mile, you might listen to what I have to say.

You could concider me for a nobel peace prize at the same time.

 

That's what I meant.

What commercial fishermen want and what anglers want are two far apart for us to work together.

A compromise might be worth pursuing but commercial fishermen would probably resist it.

Would the following be acceptable to you?

You stay outside 1 mile including estuaries.

You can gill net and trawl but you must use bigger mesh.

The MLS for all species is to be a size where they have spawned at least once.

If this is too hard for you to concede then there will never be any alliance between commercial fishermen and anglers.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

I agree, but you are long enough in the tooth ken to see thats how it will all end up most likely? because at the end of the day they wont give you or i or any sea angler one single concession if they can help it, when and if it is forced upon them by the government that they can no longer fish where they want inshore? we may see a few sparks fly no doubt

 

I have to admit I was not relying on commercial element to dish out concessions.

 

With all the chat about RSAs current and possible projected turnover equating an enormous revenue for this and future goverments, plus employment in areas without large industries or commercial base, I was sort of hanging my hat on the goverment nail for concessions

 

I personally think commercial fishing on a large scale is onto a hiding for nothing, people like Wurzle will survive and hopefully make a good living.

 

Some times a job or proffesion becomes part of your life in such a way that the people involved would not consider any other way of living, for people like Wurzle I am sure this is true.

 

I would certainly not want to see a situation where Wurzle or people like him were driven from their way of life.

 

Those who operate on a corperate basis must take their chances, they don't even get their toes wet.

 

I don't agree with a lot of what Wurzle and others post and some of them are RSAs, but you can see where they are coming from if you look hard enough.

 

I look back on days gone by and enjoy my memories, but thats what they are and even at my age I live for the future, you can go forward but you cannot go backwards in life.

 

I like to think as I travel forward that I have learnt from the past, I used to be a stubborn conceited prat at times and only listened to what I wanted to hear not what people where saying.

 

Things are already changing and I personally would like to do it together with guys like Wurzle because from what he post he has a lot to offer and for that not to be on the table would be a loss to all concerned.

Edited November 11, 2005 by Ken Davison South Wales

[Jaffa]

I like to think as I travel forward that I have learnt from the past, I used to be a stubborn conceited prat at times and only listened to what I wanted to hear not what people where saying. dry.gif

 

Things are already changing and I personally would like to do it together with guys like Wurzle because from what he post he has a lot to offer and for that not to be on the table would be a loss to all concerned.

 

Ditto.

[Guest @AUTUMN@]

Ken ??? Do you read different posts to me????. I know you will think I'm just a stupid pratt from up North with far too much to say at times (but I dont really care about that). But I am believe it or not reasonably well educated, of average intelligence and very able when I need to to sit down and listen to reasoned argument and find an understanding of where most people are coming from.

You have me baffled when you make a statement like that. I understand Jaffa saying Ditto as Ive studied him for a good while and realise he is cast from the same mould.

What is it that wurzel posts that makes such sense to you. Sorry this isnt a personnal attack on anyone but I just dont get it. I fail to make any sense of wurzels claims that fly in the face of an abundance of scientific evidence and personnal experience. Are your seas full of fish too??

[Jaffa]

Ken ??? Do you read different posts to me????. I know you will think I'm just a stupid pratt from up North with far too much to say at times (but I dont really care about that). But I am believe it or not reasonably well educated, of average intelligence and very able when I need to to sit down and listen to reasoned argument and find an understanding of where most people are coming from.

You have me baffled when you make a statement like that. I understand Jaffa saying Ditto as Ive studied him for a good while and realise he is cast from the same mould.

What is it that wurzel posts that makes such sense to you. Sorry this isn't a personal attack on anyone but I just don't get it. I fail to make any sense of wurzels claims that fly in the face of an abundance of scientific evidence and personal experience. Are your seas full of fish too??

 

 

Your not from "up north" , but from Whitby Weird, Wonderful Whitby sounds a great place, but what is true there is surely not true everywhere? Some of the stuff you and Big Cod come out with is way beyond anything i have experienced or understand. At one point Big Cod claimed the whitby trawlers were landing the equivalent of the entire east coast scots fleet! OK , numbers are easy enough to mix up, and non of us are perfect at that, but IMHO i think the pair of you lack any wider perspective at times?

 

How many English ports developed the kind of fleet whitby did? Not many as far as I know. I look at your posts and recognise so much that is Scottish east coast; i recognise the rockhoppers, pair trawlers, the kind of cod fishing you do. I just don't recognise that hatred between sea anglers and commercials that you have. It just aint like that around here IME.

 

I don't agree with a lot of Wurzel says, but some of what he says is true, and you choose to ignore the science and HIS personal experience on that.

 

Don't agree with a lot of what you say but would love to see you make the trip north

 

Chris

Edited November 11, 2005 by Jaffa

[wurzel]

hello bob

quote

Would the following be acceptable to you?

You stay outside 1 mile including estuaries.

 

No defently not.

 

You can gill net and trawl but you must use bigger mesh.

The MLS for all species is to be a size where they have spawned at least once.

 

I've all ways said that MlS should be increaced, whether it's possible for all species to have spawned once I'm not sure.

 

I'll say it again, you obviously missed it the umpteentimes before, If you were lobbing the EU for these changes to cover all Europes fishing fleets then you would have a lot more support from the UK's fishermen.

But while we are being singled out, not for any concervation purpose but soley to generate some revenue for the government you will get nothing but hostility.

 

Hello jaffa

QuoteI just don't recognise that hatred between sea anglers and commercials that you have. It just aint like that around here IME.

 

I don't experince it either, the anglers that opperate from around our mooring, often come over and watch us unload , they are interested in what we do, and obvisouly were we've been fishing, we have a good relationship and I help them whenever I can.

[Bob Jerunkel]

I'll say it again, you obviously missed it the umpteentimes before, If you were lobbing the EU for these changes to cover all Europes fishing fleets then you would have a lot more support from the UK's fishermen.

But while we are being singled out, not for any concervation purpose but soley to generate some revenue for the government you will get nothing but hostility.

 

I dont have any doubt at all that if the BMP gets implemented over here europe will be lobbied next.

Trouble is we have to start somewhere and we have to get our own house in order before trying to get others to follow suit.

If the BMP does happen just imagine the pressure there will be on europe to follow suit.

Especially if the commercial fishermen join forces with the anglers in lobbying for it.

Plus if you are right about the government being swayed by a source of revenue I'm sure the europeans will want a slice too.

Why aren't you prepared to fish outside a mile?

It would make such a difference to anglers if there wasn't any netting within a mile and its not too much to ask.

You see its just another case of commercial fishermen not wanting to give anything to anglers.

Thats the attitude I was talking about that will make any sort of alliance impossible.

[Guest @AUTUMN@]

Your not from "up north" , but from Whitby Weird, Wonderful Whitby sounds a great place, but what is true there is surely not true everywhere? Some of the stuff you and Big Cod come out with is way beyond anything i have experienced or understand. At one point Big Cod claimed the whitby trawlers were landing the equivalent of the entire east coast scots fleet! OK , numbers are easy enough to mix up, and non of us are perfect at that, but IMHO i think the pair of you lack any wider perspective at times?

 

How many English ports developed the kind of fleet whitby did? Not many as far as I know. I look at your posts and recognise so much that is Scottish east coast; i recognise the rockhoppers, pair trawlers, the kind of cod fishing you do. I just don't recognise that hatred between sea anglers and commercials that you have. It just aint like that around here IME.

 

I don't agree with a lot of Wurzel says, but some of what he says is true, and you choose to ignore the science and HIS personal experience on that.

 

Don't agree with a lot of what you say but would love to see you make the trip north

 

Chris

 

 

 

HI Chris,

 

You use the word hatred and I really dont like the word, at least not in the context of online debate. For me to hate someone is damn difficult. First of all I have to know them. I couldnt hate someone I dont know, it just aint in me. I know quite a few of the lads who work the trawlers and the majority are nice, honest individuals who I get along with just fine and just because we disagree on a couple of issues doesnt mean we disagree on everything in the world. I disagree strongly with a lot of thier practices and I think this is where you are getting confused. THe use of the word hatred is a little strong jaffa and one that could cause a lot of problems. I just hope the guy's on the boat with binatone dont read what you have said.

 

Im interested in your point about big cod saying that whitby's boats were landing as much as the entire Scottish fleet (knowing big cod he probably hit another 0 on the keyboard by mistake. Believe me he is more clued up than most). You have a good memory and know how to use the search facility, I would be interested in seeing the topic in question if you could point me in the right direction please.

Edited November 12, 2005 by @AUTUMN@