What's the best Kayak for me?

[Yakity - Yak - u.k.]

Hi Scotsgun.

 

There are many Kayaks out there to choose from, and there are definatly some favourites in use.

Have a look at the link below, some usfull info there that may influence your choice.

 

 

 

http://www.kayakfishingstuff.com/choosing_...shing_kayak.asp

 

Hope you find it helpfull.

 

 

Bill.

[ChrisW]

Hi Scotsguard,

 

Have a look at the Prowler 15.... I love mine (I might even marry it) it does everything I want it to and is stable as a rock and cuts throught the water.

 

Chris

[Moonyaker]

Hi Scotsgun,

 

The advice, that you will get again and again on this forum when such a question is posed is 'try before you buy and try and get to a meet so that you can do this'.

 

But, bearing in mind that there aint a lot happening meet-wise at present and if you are looking for a table-top analysis :-

 

The Scupper Pro is a bit Anorexic for your stats, The Prowler 13 has a good sized cockpit and copes OK with the faster moving tides that we get in the UK (but that they dont in the US or MED) and has got to be a serious contender.

 

The Prowler 15 is longer and quicker (and less of an effort to paddle) but has a shorter cockpit than the P13.

 

The Prowler Elite has the same sized cockpit as the P13 and same Length as the P15.

 

The Prowler Big Game is shorter and slower than the other Prowlers and thus requires more effort to Paddle. The Drifter is wider than all of the above and whilst many larger UK paddlers have chosen it, they also seem to chose to dispose of it quite rapidly too - good Yak for Big Yakkers elsewhere but not with our tides.

 

Malibu X-Factor - a few problems with distribution initially which now seem to be being resolved. Certainly a Big Guys Kayak, But are you that Big?, it is wide and will take more effort to paddle in our tides than some of the competition that would also be accommodating with ease.

 

There are also the Tarpons to consider and the 14 and 16 would seem to be possible choices.

 

Dorados and Pelicans; great Kayaks but a lot of money to commit to a sport that you have not really had much experience of (though they are likely to have very high residual values due to desirability and scarcity).

 

I've not paddled one but think that the Prowler Elite would be top of my list if I were carrying the pounds than I was a few years ago.

 

I seem to recall having at least three 'tops of my list' before I bought a P13.....and then decided that I should have followed my heart and bought the Scupper Pro instead.

 

Anyway, enjoy your dilemma Scotsgun..............you'll have to decide on rod rests....paddles.....fish finders......VHS's.......dry suits......Cags.......Rods.....Reels......and on and on and on.....just like the Monty Python Record.....

 

 

 

Moonyaker

[Simon Everett]

There has been considerable interest from people thinking about a kayak. There is also a huge amount of misunderstanding about stability and paddlability. I hope to explain a little about kayak design that will help you make an informed choice.

 

Kayaks have been around for centuries. The Inuit and Aleut use them for fishing and hunting seals and even whales in a group hunt - known as a grindyboo. The kayaks they use are always long and thin -but never unstable. Sea kayaks follow the original form, but with some improvements made possible by the use of composite moulding abilities, rather than skin on wood frames. Polythene kayaks CANNOT be moulded to the same finesse as a composite one. The process simply does not allow it. Close, but not as fine - you only have to lok at the same model made in both materials like P&Hs Capella for instance. The polythene one is also heavier.

 

The stability of these kayaks does not come from having a very wide kayak - a wide kayak is difficult to paddle for two reasons (possibly 3)

1. It moves more water than a slim one - having to push that water further away from its natural place and then it flowing back in again at the stern.

2. The paddlers reach to the water HAS to be further than that same paddler in a slim kayak.

3 - windage - a wider kayak catches the wind much more because there is a larger profile making both of the above more difficult.

 

Stability is a function of the centre of gravity, not on the width of the kayak. A slim kayak can be more stable than one TWICE its width if the difference in C of G is great.

 

Wide kayaks have come about because the buying public, in America because that is where the bigest kayak market is, are tentative about ventring out on a kayak - and because most of them can't fit into a proper sized one (if you are American and reading this and are offended, then it serves you jolly well right. Don't eat so many crap burgers. Go chew a carrot Politically incorrect and proud of it. )

 

Where was I? Oh yes, centre of gravity. Now, those same Americans are also worried about getting their tender large behinds wet This is kayaking, you are going to get wet. Learn to like it - it is a watersport, getting wet is part of it. Add the two things above together and you get a wide kayak to get an oversized burger store into, and a high seat to keep that fat store dry. Only the second thing compounds the first. Read on:

 

On the kayak the biggest factor that changes the C of G is the weight of the paddler - even your HEAD is heavy enough to alter the way a kayak behaves - when doing an eskimo roll, your head HAS to be the last thing out of the water, or the roll will fail. With it stuck up in paddling position you have a significant weight quite high, altering th CofG enough to stop the kayak from rolling up, unless you lean forward and get our head close to the deck or keep it hard on your shoulder, like holding a phone in place - now the CofG has lowered enough to complete the roll.

 

OK so we aren't going to roll on our fishing kayaks, but the example shows how the C of G is important. The paddler is the biggest single item of ballast - by putting that ballast up high, like on a nice dry seat, the C of G has just been raised CONSIDERABLY. that makes the kayak VERY UNSTABLE. In an attempt to regain some of that stability, the makers add beam - to counteract the high C of G. Now, add the bloody silly request to be able to stand to cast WHY?

 

Stand up and spook the fish away so you have to cast further to reach them.

Sit down and don't spook the fish and still be able to cast nearly as far as you can stood up -

 

I can, on a very good day, cast 25 yards stood up on perfect ground. Sat down in the kayak I can still get 20 - 22 yards out. So the standing up on the kayak has just gained me 3 yards of casting ability - but scared the fish 50 yards away Fish in a kayak sitting down and take advantage of the stealth - don't go scaring your fish away like the silly yanks do by standing up and waving at them. The main advantage of the kayak is being able to get within easy range of the fish - don't make it harder.

 

Now, back to the wider is better myth, especially where stability is concerned. On flat water it makes little difference what kayak you are in - anything can cope in that - even a bath tub with the plughole stoppered up! No, when there is a bit of wave and you need your kayak to stay upright to keep you out of trouble - and I don't mean huge breakers either, they are normally associated with dapping weather! No I mean in waves that you could still fish rather than just a little ripple.

 

A slim kayak with a low seat height and good stability through a low centre of gravity can deal with the face of a wave happily. This design of kayak can sit on the face of the wave "on edge" - like a surfboard edges on a wave only with more contact patch. A wide kayak cannot do this, its width means it has to stay flat to the face of the wave - which means it is now at nearly the same angle as the face of the water - and with a high seating position, which gives it a high centre of gravity, which at that kind of angle extends over the side of the kayak and so it tips it over.

 

There are some graphs somewhere if you are interested which show for a given a kayak just how raising the seat height reduces the angle to which the kayak can remain stable - I remember that raising the seat height just 2.5cm (1") reduces the stability angle by 17 degrees - so even by sticking a thick piece of foam under your backside can make a considerable difference to the stability of your kayak.

 

Another big drawback of the wider kayak over the low slim one is the paddling factor - in a slim, low seated, kayak the water is right beside you. That means you can use a shorter paddle and use it more effectively. On the high wide seat the water is low down and a long way out - you need a longer paddle and you have your stroke reduced by the side of the kayak - you have just lost out on two counts.

1. You are paddling at an awkward angle because you are having to reach down to the water.

2. You can't use so much of your paddle (unless you have a very long one) because the reach is that much longer.

 

Add the fact that the bigger kayak is going to weigh a considerable amount more than the slim one and you can begin to see you lose out a bit on several facets - for what?

A bigger cockpit that gives you no support - but does have somewhere to put your stuff - a slim kayak can give you somewhere to put your stuff, how much are taking for heavens sake? Bigger cockpit doesn't mean you have more room in actual fact - it means you are more exposed though.

 

The Prowler 13 and Elite (I think the 15 has been discontinued but I stand to be corrected) are both good compromises on the width/stability front. The P15 was/is excellent - but suffered from the shorter legroom of the P13 - hence the marriage of the two in the Elite, together with its dedicated fishfinder fittings. You should also consider resale value - there are more people out there looking for one of these than looking for the big kayaks, so you should be able to sell it more easily and for a better residual value. At 18 stone the Prowler 13 will cope but the Elite would be better - and a much better choice than a Big Game or Drifter for over here. The X-Factor is big, stable kayak but in a breeze becomes very difficult to paddle. It is also just as wet as everything else in a wave. Huge hatch capacity - but when I went to test it I couldn't lift it (but then I was only a full back!)

 

The advantages of the wider kayak are far outweighed by the disadvantages - a slim kayak is lighter to carry off the water, faster through the water, uses less energy to cover the same distance because it isn't moving so much water, is less susceptible to windage, cuts waves better, is more stable in chop and funnily enough, contrary to popular belief it is just as dry!

 

So now you have some idea of how stability is built into a kayak you can make a better choice when choosing yours. Think more about how it paddles and handles the water than how well you can fish from it - ANY open cockpit kayak will enable you to cast a fly or flick a lure. BUT if it is a pig to load on the car, heavy to carry, hard work to paddle and wears you out before you get to pick your rod up the fact that you think it is better to fish from won't come into it because you won't go through the torture to get it on the water and out to the marks you wanted to fish. - That was a good buy then wasn't it! It ends up where so many wide kayaks end up - in the for sale columns, while the first owner goes for a slimmer kayak.

[scotsgun]

Thanks Simon, i now understand more.....bigger isn't always better (try telling the wife that )

[niko]

dont discount the x-factor i love mine ,yes heavy out off water but not slow on

it makes an incredible fishing platform

if your first priority is fishing from it ,instead out paddling 10 miles to a mark then fishing(waste of fishing time imo ) then the x is amazing

i have paddled about 4 miles against the tide run and she handled it fine and thats good enough for me

Edited March 13, 2007 by niko

[darnsarf]

Just to practicaly demonstrate Simons point on Sunday I was unhooking from a bouy. The process required me to reach under the water as the carabiner had got caught on a knot about 2ft down. I suddenly realised that I was leaning the Scupper Pro so far over that the gunwale was actully under the surface. Now that is secondary stability for all the reasons Simon mentioned above. NOT bad for a Yak only 26" wide.

Edited March 13, 2007 by darnsarf

[s2vto]

dont discount the x-factor i love mine ,yes heavy out off water but not slow on

it makes an incredible fishing platform

if your first priority is fishing from it ,instead out paddling 10 miles to a mark then fishing(waste of fishing time imo ) then the x is amazing

i have paddled about 4 miles against the tide run and she handled it fine and thats good enough for me

 

I know what you mean, My Ocean Drifter was the same. Brilliant fishing platform, very stable but quite a barge to paddle any distance. Ideal kayak IMO if you did not have to go very far!

[niko]

I know what you mean, My Ocean Drifter was the same. Brilliant fishing platform, very stable but quite a barge to paddle any distance. Ideal kayak IMO if you did not have to go very far!

to be honest mate i would be fine paddling the x for quiet a distance it glides very well its not the yak stopping me ,its me stopping me !!!!

i would prefer to be fishing not paddling

i got the yak to fish from ,i am a fisherman who uses a yak not a yakker who fishes i think people who are looking to buy a yak need to think what the main use will be ,yes the thiner yak are faster but the space i have to spread out my gear is massive and as i say for me personally fishing comfort is a bigger priority then the ability to go futher .

tight lines to all!!!!!

[Martin Hurst]

quite right Niko , and some people are putting sails and motors on their vessels