Bradshaw bottles it.

[barry luxton]

This can only go one way: the commercials continues to become victim of their own lobby successes and we will see more fishermen have to leave the business as to balance the unchanged high fishing pressure, 'effort management' that is. The smallest (inshore) vessels will be forced to leave first due to market forces and a management and political regime, which obviously prefers bigger units, transferable marketable quotas etc. Unfortunately, this kind of management -paired with a preference for recruitment fisheries where baby fish are the main target leaving few spawners to survive- does far more harm than good to both the fish stocks and angling,

 

 

Could this be the reason for the condition of the north sea cod stock by any chance?

[The doctor]

Hi barry

 

If as you say ban trawling I will increase the amount of my mono trammels so as to work 10 miles a day and so to will alot of other people.

 

The biomass of large bass will plummet along with the bass price

 

steve

 

Steve,

 

are you then saying that if any measures to improve stocks or recruitment capacity are put in place, that may as a consequence (in the short term) reduce your earning potential, your response will be to go out and to purposely undermine the measures, try to reduce the stock across the board, increase impacts to other species including marine mammals, and impact the RSA sector by reducing both availability and access.

 

If this is the case, do you not think that such moves are hugely irresponsible.

 

If I have misinterpreted your meaning then I apologise.

 

Obviously I have no idea on the size of your vessel, if you are under 10m then is it realistic for you to work over 20km of trammels in a day?

 

Doc.

[ColinW]

Hi barry

 

If as you say ban trawling I will increase the amount of my mono trammels so as to work 10 miles a day and so to will alot of other people.

 

The biomass of large bass will plummet along with the bass price

 

steve

 

The best thing about this site is that commercial fishermen post here. Until I started visiting here I had no opinion at all about commercial fishing. Comments like this are what woke me up. If it wasn't for the commercial fishermen on here I'd never have started e-mailing fisheries ministers, filling in consultation documents and the like, I'd just be going fishing, getting hacked off about catching nothing but not knowing why

[stavey]

The best thing about this site is that commercial fishermen post here. Until I started visiting here I had no opinion at all about commercial fishing. Comments like this are what woke me up. If it wasn't for the commercial fishermen on here I'd never have started e-mailing fisheries ministers, filling in consultation documents and the like, I'd just be going fishing, getting hacked off about catching nothing but not knowing why

 

And these are the sort of views of the majority of the sfc's commitee members that run them, as they are the same people ie, commercial fishermen, and even worse we pay them for that privilege out of our council taxes........

[The doctor]

Steve,

 

are you then saying that if any measures to improve stocks or recruitment capacity are put in place, that may as a consequence (in the short term) reduce your earning potential, your response will be to go out and to purposely undermine the measures, try to reduce the stock across the board, increase impacts to other species including marine mammals, and impact the RSA sector by reducing both availability and access.

 

If this is the case, do you not think that such moves are hugely irresponsible.

 

If I have misinterpreted your meaning then I apologise.

 

Obviously I have no idea on the size of your vessel, if you are under 10m then is it realistic for you to work over 20km of trammels in a day?

 

Doc.

 

Any further comment on this steve or was it a heat of the moment thing, we all have been there, sudden rush of blood etc.

 

Best fishes

 

 

Doc.

[steve good]

Steve,

 

are you then saying that if any measures to improve stocks or recruitment capacity are put in place, that may as a consequence (in the short term) reduce your earning potential, your response will be to go out and to purposely undermine the measures, try to reduce the stock across the board, increase impacts to other species including marine mammals, and impact the RSA sector by reducing both availability and access.

 

If this is the case, do you not think that such moves are hugely irresponsible.

 

If I have misinterpreted your meaning then I apologise.

 

Obviously I have no idea on the size of your vessel, if you are under 10m then is it realistic for you to work over 20km of trammels in a day?

 

Doc.

 

Hi Doc

 

What I am saying is that if the mls does go up to 40cm commercials will as allways adapt accordingly, so as to remain viable.

 

The increase in mms will by its very nature greatly increase the pressure on the breeding stock, all the uk's fishing effort will be concentrated on breeding bass.

 

The larger mesh size means that these nets will not catch so much junk, which enables fishermen to work three times more gear, also the nets can be left and worked day and night.

 

Although there will not be much discards, it raises the question of mortelity by escaping fish which may be considable, but unmeasurable.

 

The greatly increased fishing effort brought about by the increased mesh size will lead to much higher bass landings and as allways with supply and demand the bass landing prices will fall sharply.

 

The net gain to the bass fishery will be a decreasing biomass of spawning stock, and these bass will be sold at rock bottom prices.

 

If the mls does increase to 40 cm and the mesh size is increased accordingly then the UK's commercial fishmen will be courtesy of DEFRA, made to be more efficient.

 

This does not take into consideration the effects of discards by trawlers and that the french will still be taking 80% of the bass landings.

 

The first rule of good fishery management is never increase the mls until all the variables that may collapse the fishery have been fully considered and understood.

 

In this case DEFRA have alot to learn about good fisheries management, perhaps they have just started to learn.

 

regards steve

[ColinW]

The greatly increased fishing effort brought about by the increased mesh size will lead to much higher bass landings and as allways with supply and demand the bass landing prices will fall sharply.

 

So what you are saying is that using bigger mesh will catch you more fish. In that case, why are commercial fishermen so set against it? Are you saying that you WANT to catch fish before they've had a chance to spawn? If bigger mesh sizes lead to bigger catches for you then the solution to all our problems is to make the meshes even bigger, so that ALL the bass you catch have spawned at least once. What is it about that scenario which scares commercial fishermen so much? Is it, as I have always suspected, that if the sea was full of fish they would be easy to catch and the price would fall? Are empty seas what commercial fishermen actually WANT?

[Toerag]

I think Colin has a good point there Steve, surely you should be following your own theory, and if not, why not?

[wurzel]

Hi Doc

 

What I am saying is that if the mls does go up to 40cm commercials will as allways adapt accordingly, so as to remain viable.

 

The increase in mms will by its very nature greatly increase the pressure on the breeding stock, all the uk's fishing effort will be concentrated on breeding bass.

 

The larger mesh size means that these nets will not catch so much junk, which enables fishermen to work three times more gear, also the nets can be left and worked day and night.

 

Although there will not be much discards, it raises the question of mortelity by escaping fish which may be considable, but unmeasurable.

 

The greatly increased fishing effort brought about by the increased mesh size will lead to much higher bass landings and as allways with supply and demand the bass landing prices will fall sharply.

 

The net gain to the bass fishery will be a decreasing biomass of spawning stock, and these bass will be sold at rock bottom prices.

 

If the mls does increase to 40 cm and the mesh size is increased accordingly then the UK's commercial fishmen will be courtesy of DEFRA, made to be more efficient.

 

This does not take into consideration the effects of discards by trawlers and that the french will still be taking 80% of the bass landings.

 

The first rule of good fishery management is never increase the mls until all the variables that may collapse the fishery have been fully considered and understood.

 

In this case DEFRA have alot to learn about good fisheries management, perhaps they have just started to learn.

 

regards steve

 

 

Hello Steve G

 

What would you say to a suggestion of leaveing the mls at 36cm but still increasing gill net minimum size to 100ml?

Something that came up in conservastion with some anglers the other day, I said it would be a compromize, let Bradshaw off the hook for the moment and verually have the same intended effect on gill net fisheries close in shore and estuaries where anglers come in coflict with commercial fishermen more often.

[steve good]

So what you are saying is that using bigger mesh will catch you more fish. In that case, why are commercial fishermen so set against it? Are you saying that you WANT to catch fish before they've had a chance to spawn? If bigger mesh sizes lead to bigger catches for you then the solution to all our problems is to make the meshes even bigger, so that ALL the bass you catch have spawned at least once. What is it about that scenario which scares commercial fishermen so much? Is it, as I have always suspected, that if the sea was full of fish they would be easy to catch and the price would fall? Are empty seas what commercial fishermen actually WANT?

 

Hi ColinW

 

If you leave the existing breeding stock alone then there will never be a problem with the bass stocks.

 

steve