Scottish Lawnmowers

[barry luxton]

Hello Barry

I would like to make a few points that might clarify things a bit.

 

The only commercial fishermen who target 36 cm bass would be a gill netter using 90mm nets.

 

The inshore trawlers that the NFFO represented mainly from the South and south west have a very mixed fishery, they don't necessarily target bass, bass make up part of their catch and a proportion of those bass are under 40 cm, I suspect that due to the large year classes of 2000 and 2001 coming into the fishery bass have featured more in their catches than previous years and due to the age of those fish a bigger proportion are under 40cm, as it does in anglers catches.

It is not practical for the trawlers to increase the meshes to a size that would release bass of under 40 cm as they would then not catch Dover sole, lemon sole, red mullet and other valuable fish such as squid which all make up their days work, so the bass under 40cm would still be caught but discarded, this would not benefit the stock what so ever as the same amount would still be caught, whether landed or not.

 

I think the angling reps only had a gill net fishery in mind when the bmp was first hatched and were completely guzzumped by the trawler discard issue and due to their lack of knowledge and total mistrust of any thing to do with commercial fishing they failed to find or even look at a compromise so came a way with nothing.

 

On a brighter note those large year classes of bass are now either over or very near to 40 cm so what you wanted to achieve is happening naturally, whether the French pair teams make a killing on them remains to be seen but the out come of the BMP would have had no effect on them anyway.

 

Hi Wurzel, i hope all is well and thank you for your comments. what you say in your third para certainly makes sence and i won't discard it from the equasion. However, what about these pair trawlers that target the bass as opposed to a mixed fishery, where do they come in. Why is it that we do not have a healthy middle range size of an inshore bass stock anymore if the fish are being taken on a sustainable basis, why has it decreased so, is what i ask. From what you say regarding angling reps is that they have made an almighty cock up, in particular the nfsa who have been established for many years and it appears that they have misjudged the situation. What about bass and all their science study etc don't that amount to anything in relation to the nffo's statement where they say the key issue is discard. What do you think mr deas has in mind with regards to increasing the size of the bass in the stock? Thanks Wurzel.

Edited November 7, 2007 by barry luxton

[wurzel]

Hi Wurzel, i hope all is well and thank you for your comments. what you say in your third para certainly makes sence and i won't discard it from the equasion. However, what about these pair trawlers that target the bass as opposed to a mixed fishery, where do they come in. Why is it that we do not have a healthy middle range size of an inshore bass stock anymore if the fish are being taken on a sustainable basis, why has it decreased so, is what i ask. From what you say regarding angling reps is that they have made an almighty cock up, in particular the nfsa who have been established for many years and it appears that they have misjudged the situation. What about bass and all their science study etc don't that amount to anything in relation to the nffo's statement where they say the key issue is discard. What do you think mr deas has in mind with regards to increasing the size of the bass in the stock? Thanks Wurzel.

 

Hello Barry

 

I can't really comment on the pair teams gear or mesh sizes as I don't know enough about that fishery, only that very few UK boats are involved. I would be surprised if the cod end meshes are the same as the mixed fishery, probably bigger and discards are not such an issue for them.

 

Not so sure the middle range of bass inshore has decreased so much over all, some areas perhaps they have been displaced by the amount of smaller bass, other areas such as hot spots like the Portland race suffer from constant pressure from commercial fishing as well as anglers, these areas are populated by fish that return to the same spot every year , when these areas were first discovered they were populated by fish that had been returning to that spot unfished for many years,

the bigger fish over time got caught the only fish available there after are new recruits that if were left alone for 30 years would return that spot to it's former glory, the problem with bass is that they are so slow growing it would take at least 10 years of a total ban on fishing before you would notice any major improvement to a spot like the Portland race. One of our hot spots is going to be in the middle of a planned wind farm where all fishing will be banned it will be interesting to see what effect it has.

 

I doubt Barry Deas has any thing other than the protection of his NFO members on his mind, that is the job he is paid to do.

[Jaffa]

Mornin, plate sized, don't know what spin guy thought that up for a 36cm bass, i would want two on my plate minimum for a feed, unless one is used with a huge amount of veg etc to bulk it out. The main issue for the bass stock, not for me as an angler i hope it's understood is to improve the pitiful average size of the stock for all, to get back to what it was as recent as the seventies . Mr shaw missed that point or ignored it, mr deas bullshined his way through with the minister as well no doubt, on the suggestion that a working party be set up as he stated before the decision was made. gone quiet now though.

It's been picked up that the word 'sustainable' has been used for the bass stock, big deal, again that is the differance between a lawn and a meadow, now this sustainable word is being changed to a huge population that could affect other stocks, where has that come from, perhaps you could let us know. Again all that is required is to repair the stock to what it was for all to benifit. There is a figure of 1.4% being used as the total amount of landing by the rsa for all fish compared to commercial. I am trying to sustantiate that, however i have been told if you put this figure to defra or the goverment it will not be denied. If it is true, would there be a need for bag limits?

 

Perhaps you would like to comment on one of the articles sacn did regarding the bass stock where anything landed from the shore under say six or seven pounds wasn't worth reporting. Treid loading it here but could not, someone will hopefully.

 

As the bass breading stock gets it's annuall hammering i can understand why commercialy there is a need for these juvenile 36cm fish to be caught and used for the 'plate' it doesn't do anything for the stock though, this is where there is short sightedness, perhaps desperation to keep targetting this. This is where the fish meal came from when they land them in brixham, can't sell them in the market so use them for meal. Don't worry i will go back and retreive the information for you.

 

Ah yes, the cheats, still haven't heard a good argument against gill tagging yet. Again, if the stock was given a chance to grow, the two would go hand in hand nicely, get rid of the cheats and the recievers, Can't see where the conflict arrises from if it puts value on the commercial landings as well, should be thanked for that.

 

Couln't agree more regarding defra making new laws to affect all, don't want it down here as well, do you think we aught to join forces just like the nffo or would it be better to act like the snp, tell me what you recon.

 

ColinW, na thats just a 'flymo' you really want a ride on.

 

I can understand that you would like bigger bass but get a tad concerned when people point to pariticular years, or decades even, and say we want it "like that". Even worse the idea that we should legislate to try and create this perfect moment in time!

 

 

That word "Sustainable". We all hear it every day, we all think we know what it means, but i must be an idiot because i really don't have a clue what it means

 

Sorry but i don't think i've seen that article.

 

"Hammering" ? lol, perhaps you are right but its hard for me to know. Bass appaerntly doing well despite it ?

 

Something im curious about is the bass regs in Eire. I guess many of us were brought up on angling books about the wonderful bass fishing in Ireland, and they have introduced loads of regs to "protect" bass. A side effect of course is the data from commercial landings has gone. Seen anything about stocks there now and if the regs have produced results?

 

IOn the NFFo thing, who should join forces?! a load of anglers (possibly the broadest "church" about ) get it together because they like the ideas. Nae chance.

 

Charter skippers joining the NFFO might be more interesting though? I'd just like to see some real connection between the folks that have an effect and power .

Edited November 8, 2007 by Jaffa

[H.A.]

That word "Sustainable". We all hear it every day, we all think we know what it means, but i must be an idiot because i really don't have a clue what it means

 

Worry not, Jaffa dear; from the blurb given in the programme guide, all will be revealed in Huge Twittering Falstaff's 'River Cottage' ... Ch4 at 8pm tonight!

 

[Toerag]

To me, 'sustainable' means you can put in the same amount of effort every year and still catch the same amount because the breeding stock is producing enough fish to compensate for the amount you take out of the system. If the breeding stock is producing more than you take out then stocks increase, if it produces less then stocks decrease.

In reality a mark or area gets discovered, fished out in 5 years, then another mark is discovered, fished out in 5 years and so on. Catches remain constant(ish) so the statisticians think everything is OK, and the fishermen don't like to talk about it or the statisticians will realise that the original 'population' was fished out, and put quotas on.

Eventually the marks will run out and that'll be the end of it all.

[H.A.]

Can I save our couple of the commercial friends the trouble and say to Toerag (although I partly agree with him):

 

"You RSAs don't know what you are talking about"

 

If we keep doing that, then maybe they'll leave an anglers forum to anglers?

After all, they've little else to say.

 

[wurzel]

Can I save our couple of the commercial friends the trouble and say to Toerag (although I partly agree with him):

 

"You RSAs don't know what you are talking about"

 

If we keep doing that, then maybe they'll leave an anglers forum to anglers?

After all, they've little else to say.

 

 

 

Are you saying our input to this forum is of no value?

And you suppose your constant bitter and twisted rhetoric is?

[H.A.]

Me? Bitter and twisted???

 

C'mon Wurzie Boy! I'm easy going and fun-loving ....

 

I leave all the silly remarks to you -

 

Well he sussed you out straight away.

 

[Jaffa]

Worry not, Jaffa dear; from the blurb given in the programme guide, all will be revealed in Huge Twittering Falstaff's 'River Cottage' ... Ch4 at 8pm tonight!

 

 

Thanks for the pointer. Enjoyed it and learned a couple of things. Good tV.

 

Be much more interesting if you actually made a point though might be even better if you refrained from personal attacks in other forum areas from the one where the subject is being discussed

 

Define "sustainable" if you can please?

[steve good]

Are you saying our input to this forum is of no value?

And you suppose your constant bitter and twisted rhetoric is?

 

Hi Peter