Sea Fishing Licence - would you pay?

[H.A.]

Think you better get your nonsense science sorted out quickly though, as i can't be the only one thats sick of hearing spin and the tide is turning imho

 

You're also confusing things a little.

The science is not mine; it's covered by a thousand pieces of original and thorough methodology (otherwise respected journals would not touch any of it). I read it; reject some and accept those for which there is no spin; just plain fact and evidence.

 

If spin was a criterion, you'd be in the Shane Warne class!

 

If it comes to a choice between the evidence offered by hundreds of scientific studies and you, I know what I'd put more faith in.

 

If the tide is turning, I hope you're on the ebb.

 

[ColinW]

Curious that someone can rubbish the idea that technology is responsible for the loss of stocks and then two lines later come out with the line

Then came the ring net, then came purse seine, now its pelagic trawlers

 

What are those things if not technology?

What are diesel engines, sonar, GPS etc etc if not technology?

[wurzel]

You're also confusing things a little.

The science is not mine; it's covered by a thousand pieces of original and thorough methodology (otherwise respected journals would not touch any of it). I read it; reject some and accept those for which there is no spin; just plain fact and evidence.

 

If spin was a criterion, you'd be in the Shane Warne class!

 

If it comes to a choice between the evidence offered by hundreds of scientific studies and you, I know what I'd put more faith in.

 

If the tide is turning, I hope you're on the ebb.

 

 

You are right HA the science is not yours nor is it those of most of your links to different mainly green sites you often use, they are usually based on just one or two science papers of which they usually exaggerate or only use the points that suite their cause or to generate the state of fear they need, like you and your trawling statements, and in some cases if that original science is flawed then all the rest that use it are.

None of us disagree that trawling alters the sea bed and there will be a difference in areas not trawled, but turning most of the sea bed into a lifeless desert is just spin and lies on your part.

 

Quote

.reject some and accept those for which there is no spin;

 

I suspect you do the opposite

 

I can’t say that I’ve notice any spin in any of Jaffa’s posts, perhaps you could show us some comparisons with your posts.

[H.A.]

.... they are usually based on just one or two science papers of which they usually exaggerate or only use the points that suite their cause or to generate the state of fear they need, like you and your trawling statements

 

You guys are getting pretty desperate, eh?

Why don't you take a break and read somethin' useful (or just go fishun'!)?

 

References

 

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Binnie Consultants, 1996. June 1995 REMOTS and benthic grab survey: the effects of trawling at Victor Rock.Report to the Hong Kong Civil Engineering Department, Geotechnical Engineering Office, February 1996,

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Bonsdorff, E., Diaz, R.J., Rosenberg, R., Norkko, A., Cutter Jr., G.R., 1996. Characterization of soft bottombenthic habitats of the Aaland islands, northern Baltic Sea. Mar. Ecol., Prog. Ser. 142, 235–245.

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EU DG XIV Study Project 98/017. 236 pp.

Collie, J.S., Hall, S.J., Kaiser, M.J., Poiner, I.R., 2000a. A quantitative analysis of fishing impacts on shelf sea benthos. J. Anim. Ecol. 69, 785–798.

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Friedlander, A.M., Boehlert, G.W., Field, M.E., Mason, J.E., Gardner, J.V., Dartnell, P., 1999. Sidescan sonar mapping of benthic trawl marks on the shelf and slope off Eureka, California. Fish. Bull. 97 (4), 786– 801.

Gislason, H., Sinclair, M., Sainsbury, K., O’Boyle, R., 2000. Symposium overview: incorporating ecosystemobjectives within fisheries management. ICES J. Mar. Sci. 57, 468– 475.

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Jennings, S., Kaiser, M.J., Reynolds, J.D., 2001. Marine Fisheries Ecology. Blackwell, Oxford. 432 pp.

Kaiser, M.J., de Groot, S.J., 2000. The Effects of Fishing on Non-target Species and Habitats. Blackwell, Oxford.399 pp.

Kaiser, M.J., Spencer, B.E., 1996. The effects of beam trawl disturbance on infaunal communities in different habitats. J. Anim. Ecol. 65, 348– 358.

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Lindeboom, H.J., de Groot, S.J. (Eds.), 1998. The effects of different types of fisheries on the North Sea and Irish Sea benthic ecosystems. Final Report to the EU, DGXIV, Contract AIR2-CT94-1664. 404 pp.

Lindegarth, M., Valentinsson, D., Hansson, M., Ulmestrand, M., 2000. Effects of trawling disturbances on temporal and spatial structure of benthic soft-sediment assemblages in Gullmarsfjorden, Sweden. ICES J.Mar. Sci. 57, 1369–1376.

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Schratzberger, M., Dinmore, T.A., Jennings, S., 2002. Impacts of trawling on the diversity, biomass and structure of meiofauna assemblages. Mar. Biol. 140, 83–93.

Schwinghamer, P., Guigne, J., Siu, W., 1996. Quantifying the impact of trawling on benthic habitat structure using high resolution acoustics and chaos theory. Can. J. Fish Aquat. Sci. 53, 288–296.

Schwinghamer, P., Gordon, D.C., Rowell, T.W., Prena, J., McKeown, D.L., Sonnichsen, G., Guigne, J.Y., 1998.

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Further works -

 

Trawling the sea bed (Sheppard, 2006)

Marine Pollution Bulletin, Volume 54, Issue 4, April 2007, Pages 489-490

Grimur Valdimarsson

Trawling the sea bed

Marine Pollution Bulletin, Volume 52, Issue 8, August 2006, Pages 831-835

Charles Sheppard

Monitoring the physical forcing of resuspension events in the Thermaikos Gulf—NW Aegean during 2001–2003

Continental Shelf Research, Volume 25, Issues 19-20, December 2005, Pages 2315-2331

E. Tragou, V. Zervakis, E. Papageorgiou, S. Stavrakakis and V. Lykousis

Trawling-induced resuspension and dispersal of muddy sediments and dissolved elements in the Gulf of Lion (NW Mediterranean)

Continental Shelf Research, Volume 25, Issues 19-20, December 2005, Pages 2387-2409

X. Durrieu de Madron, B. Ferré, G. Le Corre, C. Grenz, P. Conan, M. Pujo-Pay, R. Buscail and O. Bodiot

Distribution of mesozooplankton resting eggs in seabottom sediments of Thermaikos gulf (NW Aegean Sea, Greece) and possible effects of sediment resuspension

Continental Shelf Research, Volume 25, Issues 19-20, December 2005, Pages 2597-2608

I. Siokou-Frangou, S. Zervoudaki, V. Kambouroglou and G. Belmonte

Suspended particulate matter and nepheloid layers over the southern margin of the Cretan Sea (N.E. Mediterranean): seasonal distribution and dynamics

Progress In Oceanography, Volume 46, Issues 2-4, August 2000, Pages 163-185

G. Chronis, V. Lykousis, D. Georgopoulos, V. Zervakis, S. Stavrakakis and S. Poulos

The subsidiary impacts of dredging (and trawling) on a subtidal benthic Molluscan community in the Southern Waters of Hong Kong

Marine Pollution Bulletin, Volume 32, Issue 10, October 1996, Pages 701-710

Brian Morton

Trawling experiments with a two-level net to minimise the undersized gaboid by-catch in a Nephrops fishery

Fisheries Research, Volume 3, 1985, Pages 131-145

J. Main and G. I. Sangster

The impact of bottom trawling on benthic fauna of the North Sea

Ocean Management, Volume 9, Issues 3-4, September 1984, Pages 177-190

S. J. de Groot

 

... they are usually based on just one or two science papers ....

 

Innit though?

 

[medwaygreen]

Gentlemen,

Forget about what you will get for your money, because you will get nothing, think about it what could you get, no one can improve the fishing waters for anglers, it is all controlled or not by the commercial consideration and activity.

Should the Tax become a fact it will be that a "Tax" on you leisure time and there is little or nothing you will be able to do about it apart from stop fishing.

Should this Government decide to place a licence on sea fishing you will have no choice but to pay if you wish to stay legal.

Sad but true.

[barry luxton]

Gentlemen,

Forget about what you will get for your money, because you will get nothing, think about it what could you get, no one can improve the fishing waters for anglers, it is all controlled or not by the commercial consideration and activity.

Should the Tax become a fact it will be that a "Tax" on you leisure time and there is little or nothing you will be able to do about it apart from stop fishing.

Should this Government decide to place a licence on sea fishing you will have no choice but to pay if you wish to stay legal.

Sad but true.

 

Well, according to johnny shaw the other day, one of those they work for you geezers, he said the goverment prelims and start up costs were app 2 mill max, on a proposel to collect 9 mill, that leaves a hefty sum of 7 mill to spend 'enhancing' the rsa sector in the first year alone. What he failed to mention however is the cost of the science, policing, uncle toms pension fund etc. So you may well be right. Whats the betting that if shaw gets his way, the ratepayers will end up subsidizing this as well, who wants to bet.

[medwaygreen]

Well, according to johnny shaw the other day, one of those they work for you geezers, he said the goverment prelims and start up costs were app 2 mill max, on a proposel to collect 9 mill, that leaves a hefty sum of 7 mill to spend 'enhancing' the rsa sector in the first year alone. What he failed to mention however is the cost of the science, policing, uncle toms pension fund etc. So you may well be right. Whats the betting that if shaw gets his way, the ratepayers will end up subsidizing this as well, who wants to bet.

 

Hi Barry,

 

Only replying as you used my post as a quote.

Who are you geezers, not sure?

 

On the collection side i have seen that the anticipated sea anglers numbers are one million, therefore collection at £25.00 would be £25.000.000.oo not nine.

I think that's the TAX element that makes them the Government go for it.

[barry luxton]

Sorry medwaygreen, i was refering to shaw being one of those 'goverment they work for you guys' that's what they lable themselves as.

 

I read the other day that they were using a figure of 400.000 take up.

[snakey1]

Sorry medwaygreen, i was refering to shaw being one of those 'goverment they work for you guys' that's what they lable themselves as.

 

I read the other day that they were using a figure of 400.000 take up.

-1 on that figure barry because i for one wont be contributing towards their tax

[medwaygreen]

Hi Barry,

 

Well if they are using a figure of 400,000 as a take up figure there will be either 600,000 that will stop fishing or maybe go illegal.

 

PS Don't apologize its not needed.