Sea Fishing Licence - would you pay?

[Leon Roskilly]

Did anyone make it to the conference in Scarborough?

 

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/conservat...007/default.htm

[H.A.]

(Sorry, got bored by Harry Potter film ......)

 

But then sometimes 'sustainable' discussion and Government 'wizardry' and regulation seems to blend in nicely with the stuff at 'Hogwarts' (Despotic Ephemeral Fisheries Regulatory Academy).

 

It's surprising how much of the films characterise some of the stuff which is actually happening ..

 

Brussells Sprouts? -

 

"... Or yet in wise old Joe's EU,

If you've a ready mind,

Where those of wit and learning,

Will always find their kind ..."

 

Coastal Waters Policy Division -

 

"...."You might belong in CWP,

Where they are just and loyal,

Those patient Hufflepuffs are true,

And unafraid of toil ..."

 

SFCs -

 

"... Or perhaps in Slytherin FC

You'll make your real friends,

Those cunning folk use any means

To achieve their ends ..."

 

Commercial Fishermen -

 

"Enter, stranger, but take heed

Of what awaits the sin of greed,

For those who take, but do not earn,

Must pay most dearly in their turn.

So if you seek beneath our floors

A treasure that was never yours,

Thief, you have been warned, beware

Of finding no more treasure there."

 

And of course, regarding RSAs -

 

"On the rare occasion that they did catch a real fish, asking them if they had a licence had no effect whatsoever. The RSA would perform 'a disappearing' and then pretend to shriek with pain while enjoying a gentle, tickling sensation. Indeed, Elton the Weird enjoyed being burned like this so much that he allowed himself to be caught no less than forty seven times in various disguises."

 

And what of Dumbledor (Shaw)

 

"I want to see a network of marine protected areas around the UK by 2012, and these seven new proposed offshore areas would be a big part of that." The Government is committed to developing a strong network of marine protected areas by 2012 to conserve the richness of our marine wildlife. The network will incorporate the Marine Conservation Zones being proposed in the Marine Bill, SACs and Special Protection Areas.

 

To see the proposals go to http://www.jncc.gov.uk/marineconsult. Deadline for responses is 13 March 2008.

 

Never let it be said that I strayed from the thread .....

 

[Jaffa]

jaffa it was a pi**take mate, commercials have never considered anyone or anything before in their lives but themselves, and like you said until now, cheers.........

 

Glad to know you have met so many commercial fishermen that you can form that view

 

Do many of us? and is some crazy idea that we do a good place to start framing legislation? Lets base it on the moral opinions of people that have zero experience of that industry, lets use every media device open to those with a few contacts in the media, lets box and classify the last of the hunter gatherers and lay all the blame for our current situation on them? Then everything will be alright ?

 

Cheers Stavey.

[H.A.]

....... lets box and classify the last of the hunter gatherers and lay all the blame for our current situation on them? Then everything will be alright ?

 

OK, I'm all for that, Jaff; not sure it will change anything because of spineless ignorance on behalf of the management!

 

What are we really up against and who/what do we blame:

 

1. POOR/NON-EXISTENT MANAGEMENT of our fisheries.

 

2. GREED and UNIVERSAL OVER-FISHING.

 

3. DAMAGE CAUSED BY THE ABOVE TO THE MARINE ECOSYSTEM

 

More importantly,

 

WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT?

 

[Jaffa]

OK, I'm all for that, Jaff; not sure it will change anything because of spineless ignorance on behalf of the management!

 

What are we really up against and who/what do we blame:

 

1. POOR/NON-EXISTENT MANAGEMENT of our fisheries.

 

2. GREED and UNIVERSAL OVER-FISHING.

 

3. DAMAGE CAUSED BY THE ABOVE TO THE MARINE ECOSYSTEM

 

More importantly,

 

WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT?

 

 

I agree that we have had poor management, but suspect thats because fisheries are just not very important to the power brokers. Anglers are unimportant because, despite numbers shown in surveys, they don't have any clout. Commercials are locally important, but since their areas tend to vote for parties like the SNP (up here) or Liberals, their concerns are hardly going to cause sleepless nights for those with the power.

 

I have got to ask why you think that more management is a good response to poor management?

 

AH, GREED ! Must be true for some but to class all fishermen like that? Others would see a work ethic surely? certainly what i've seen most the time. How about this one: a lot of the Pelagic boats have done well and carried on come from small communities like Whalsey in Shetland and have continued to do what they do, continued to keep money coming into these strange and remote places, when they could have sold out and followed many, eg the house price winners, abroad for a new life in the sun,. Funny thing is they don't

 

You reckon thats "greed" then fine. Not my experience of them though.

 

You want to know what the biggest fisheries ecosystems disasters i know of? Have you heard of the Ctenophore that invaded the Black Sea (more than likely brought in ballast water: be hilarious if the ship had been delivering the latest great fishing rod, or Turkish translations of a Greenpeace newsletter but lets blame the black sea commercials for the collapse of their pelagics

 

I know this forum gets very "them" and "us" at times, but at the same time it does spew out stuff that makes me at least think. As to the "what we do aboui this" question, I honestly do not have any answer. My gut instinct is that the answer has to come from the real fishery scientists and the commercials, that the less EU/government involvement the better and that the greens/RSA/RSPB etc etc will only just get in the way unless they wise up.

 

Just my opinion HA .

 

Have a good New Year,

 

Chris

[H.A.]

Yeh, tell me about the poor souls who turns the sods for a few pence worth cockles or razors!!

And at the same time show me trawlermen arriving at Peterhead or Aberdeen in their £35k 07 Reg cars. Show me markets where a week's work yields catches worth a 100 Grand!

 

Even the Sunday Post reads as follows THIS weekend ....

 

THE LUCRATIVE sea angling industry in Scotland and the north of England is facing collapse due to the state of our stocks, writes Stevie Gallacher.

Ports from Whitby through North Berwick and Dunbar via Arbroath and Stonehaven right up to Scrabster have attracted anglers from around the world, supporting thousands of jobs worth £150 million a year.

But inshore trawlers and longliners hammering fish from the Mull of Galloway, via the Clyde and the Sound of Mull to the west coast sea lochs, have seen a downturn in business for communities reliant on angling tourism. If the trend goes on, thousands of jobs will be lost.

Ian is quoted as follows ...

 

" ... due to the lack of stocks, sea angling in Scotland is bordering on collapse. Ironically, most of the species of interest to anglers are of limited value commercially — fish like pollack, skate, conger eel, wrasse, mullet, spurdog and tope.

"But many are lost as discards or through their environments being destroyed by commercial practices. It's estimated 500 million fish are thrown away every year."

"A study was done where I live, in Drummore, near Stranraer, a small community of around 410 people.There are 20 full-time jobs dependent on angling."

The only way to replenish stocks, says Ian, is to change commercial fishing practices. Possible solutions put forward by the SSACN include a protected national marine park.

 

I have to agree with Ian. Along the English Channel we have thousands of hectares of inshore habitat ploughed up by dredges, beams and other trawls. Mussel beds, kelp beds and the now the well-publicised reefs and fan coral sanctuaries off Dorset (supposedly protected by voluntary agreement with the scallopers)! Pah!

 

They call themselves 'farmers of the sea, yet they remove the 'topsoil', plough the fields into kingdom come and put sod all back and still expect the grounds to produce livestock every year, year on year until .........

 

[barry luxton]

I agree that we have had poor management,

 

I have got to ask why you think that more management is a good response to poor management?

 

My gut instinct is that the answer has to come from the real fishery scientists and the commercials, that the less EU/government involvement the better and that the greens/RSA/RSPB etc etc will only just get in the way unless they wise up.

 

Seasons greetings Jaffa.

 

This country spends 100 mil on it's management of the sea, defra, i agree some of it's crap. It's not more management but a correct one wanted. Some of the eu management is crap as well. If there were none i believe there would be no fish in the sea.

 

To allow commercials to run it, to what extent and who to trust? What about the big boys who have been taken to court and found guilty of taking our stock, or the one's who have multiple court cases behind them, trust them, like the brixham skipper who dredges lyme bay who has been caught, trust him not to fiddle us on a voluntary basis. I would find that very difficult. What about the others 'getting in the way' what they want to see is fish in the sea isn't it. The rsa certainly do and what is wrong with that and why are they getting in the way? What do they need to wise up to?

Edited December 30, 2007 by barry luxton

[steve good]

Seasons greetings Jaffa.

 

This country spends 100 mil on it's management of the sea, defra, i agree some of it's crap. It's not more management but a correct one wanted. Some of the eu management is crap as well. If there were none i believe there would be no fish in the sea.

 

To allow commercials to run it, to what extent and who to trust? What about the big boys who have been taken to court and found guilty of taking our stock, or the one who have multiple court cases behind them, trust them, like the brixham skipper who dredges lyme bay who has been caught, trust him not to fiddle us on a voluntary basis. I would find that very difficult. What about the others 'getting in the way' what they want to see is fish in the sea isn't it. The rsa certainly do and what is wrong with that and why are they getting in the way? What do they need to wise up to?

 

Hi Barry

 

The way forward is that the EU need to---QUOTE What do they need to wise up to? is simple this

 

The mls for--

cod whiting plaice sole bass skate dab brill turbot mackerel scad pollock is by far set miles to low.

 

They should all be increased for all EU fishing vessels

 

And all under 10 mtr EU vessels should have a maxium trawl size of 8 fathoms and over 10 mtr EU vessels should have a trawl size 16 fathom with large mesh in the front end

 

Set netters maxium length and mms also restricted

 

Quotas dont work because of over- capacity and mixed fisheries and why techinally measures have not been brought in to compensate for over capacity beggers belief

 

But then does it, because those blue and white striped tea shirts you know those wineo's, garlick and onion adicked frogs legs, those mafia minded gangsters that blockade ports WITH THERE CHEAP GOVERMENT FUEL, and burn english meat when they get upset, are feared by the EU and our goverment alike prevent commen sense and meaningful conservation measures like the above from ever being possible

 

Might is right wether it is commen sense or correct is of no matter

 

What chance does afew pole bearing anglers and afew greedy commercial fishermen stand about getting any meaningful management into this brueacratic mayhem

 

No wonder that the goverment are running with the greens and there pretenders

 

In the passing of a heart beat a blink of the eye allowing for aggregate and windfram money spiners and the already predetermined Marine bill and Vision 2027 so as to apeasment of the greens in exchange for votes, anglers and commercials will be reflected upon as a by-gone era

 

Ironically anglers and commercials cant see that yet, or maybe its just my crackpot grey matter??

 

Happy new year all

 

steve

Edited December 30, 2007 by steve good

[wurzel]

Yeh, tell me about the poor souls who turns the sods for a few pence worth cockles or razors!!

And at the same time show me trawlermen arriving at Peterhead or Aberdeen in their £35k 07 Reg cars. Show me markets where a week's work yields catches worth a 100 Grand!

 

Even the Sunday Post reads as follows THIS weekend ....

Ian is quoted as follows ...

The only way to replenish stocks, says Ian, is to change commercial fishing practices. Possible solutions put forward by the SSACN include a protected national marine park.

 

I have to agree with Ian. Along the English Channel we have thousands of hectares of inshore habitat ploughed up by dredges, beams and other trawls. Mussel beds, kelp beds and the now the well-publicised reefs and fan coral sanctuaries off Dorset (supposedly protected by voluntary agreement with the scallopers)! Pah!

 

They call themselves 'farmers of the sea, yet they remove the 'topsoil', plough the fields into kingdom come and put sod all back and still expect the grounds to produce livestock every year, year on year until .........

 

But Jaffa says I quote

"Fishing’s good up here BC"

So who do we believe?

 

How do the fishermen in the Channel remove the top soil? is it even possible?

If it was possible why do the grounds still produce?

 

I would have thought the fact that the fan coral reefs are still there is proof that after 40 years of scalloping near by they are safe from the scallop dredges, the fishermen probably ovoid them any way due to the damage to their gear, it was not an issue until some tree huggers wanted to ban scalloping in a much bigger area than just the reefs.

 

A bit further north of you in my area there are also thousands of hectors that are fished by trawlers some of it by large beam trawlers but there are also thousands of hectors that never see a trawl of any sort.

 

I've seen the local fore shore looking like the battle of the Somme after armies of bait diggers have turned it over yet after 50 years of this happening on a regular basis the area still continue to supply armies of bait diggers with bait, explain what’s the difference between bait digging and trawling?

[H.A.]

How do the fishermen in the Channel remove the top soil? is it even possible?

If it was possible why do the grounds still produce?

 

During a fishing trip, a single pass of a trawl removes some 5-20 per cent of the benthic organisms. After 5-20 passes, the seabed is barren of life.

Many areas of the world's continental shelves, such as the North Sea, are repeatedly "ploughed" in this way three or four times a year, leaving no opportunity for species and habitat recovery in between.

 

Such habitat alteration has been compared to strip mining or global deforestation through clear-cutting.

 

When a research survey ship went out in the North Sea to look at the effects of beam trawls on the sea bed, they filmed for many hours over random 'quadrants' of sea bed and were astonished at the evidence of trawls having traversed wherever they filmed.

When the same researchers looked for 'control' samples ie sea bed which was untrawled, they were unable to complete their project objectively because control zones could not be found.

 

Happy New Year, Wurzel.