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I was caught out today by the Thames being more 'up and coloured' than I had expected. I thought I had done my research and it would be OK, but I got it wrong. I had just taken bread and liquidised bread plus worms. What to do? The peg I had planned to fish was under-water, and the flow there was much too strong. I found a big eddy, about 40 yards long, just below Abingdon bridge and fished it for a bit half way along with flake, but found even the back flow was too strong. Then I noticed that closer to the bridge it was slower, and tried it with worm, but it kept changing. One moment a spot would be calm, then it would become 'boily'. Someone told me before I had even got to the swim that it was 'bad underneath'. I didn't understand what he was saying, but I now think he meant that there was debrie or branches.

So what to do? One issue is where the fish have moved to. Looking at the river, most of it didn't look very fish-friendly. Does anyone have any ideas? Do they stay fairly local, and find little holes etc out of the flow, or do they migrate en masse to lock cuts etc? When the flow is really strong I suspect the latter. Even with the weir permit not being available this year I think I know one or two places where they might be. But there is still the colour to cope with. (It may come down, of course. When we discussed this a couple of years ago, one angler who knows the Thames well suggested staying at home till it drops out. Probably some good wisdom there, but it may stay coloured a long time!)

The text book answer, I think, is big smellie baits for chub. Maybe, but it's a bit of a new one for me, and only slightly appeals! I've read an old A.T. article, and it recommends cheese paste using stilton, but as we're into smells talks about additives as well, particularly squid extract. But why, when you've already got the strong cheese smell do you need more? And where do you stop?

And should chub always be the target? Can you catch roach when it is coloured?

I'd welcome views and advice, particularly from people who have actually caught fish when the river is 'up and coloured'!

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john clarke

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Tench ,

Very nice post. Lots of fishy conversation which I dearly enjoy.

I have chosen to answer only small segment.  Your comment, "The text book answer, ", . . ..

WRONG! The correct answer is call it a day and go home. 

Phone

again, snappy post

 

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10 hours ago, The Flying Tench said:

The text book answer, I think, is big smellie baits for chub. Maybe, but it's a bit of a new one for me, and only slightly appeals! I've read an old A.T. article, and it recommends cheese paste using stilton, but as we're into smells talks about additives as well, particularly squid extract. But why, when you've already got the strong cheese smell do you need more? And where do you stop?

And should chub always be the target? Can you catch roach when it is coloured?

I'd welcome views and advice, particularly from people who have actually caught fish when the river is 'up and coloured'!

I've not had much success when targeting Chub in coloured water, although the odd ones I've caught have always been large for that venue. Cheesepaste doesn't need messing with as a bait, simple works just fine, but play around all you want, who knows, you might find the new wonderbait.

If it's not too cold, I'd use the tin of meat that's always in my bag and go for Barbel, they really do like a warm flood.

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I haven’t fished in floodwater for several years but I have caught Chub in the past fishing in floodwater; and when it’s just been up and coloured; using a cheese/bread paste that has had some raw onion juice mixed into it; or a small crust popped up off the bottom a bit with ‘bread spice’ sprayed onto it (bread spice Carp flavouring). I have also had quite a few floodwater Chub using a fairly lean luncheonmeat coated in a softish fishmeal paste; which will dissolve and send a flavour trail downstream leading back up to the bait. 

Another bait that has worked for me in the past in floodwater conditions and when the water is just up and coloured; is a lobworm (sometimes with its head inflated using a hyperdermic needle which makes it pop up off the bottom a little) with the end of its tail nipped to emit juices. The Chub must get used to finding the occasional worm that has been washed into the river from the banks during floods, and it has caught me quite a few Chub when Ive tried it on the river Kennet and on the river Lea in very coloured water; so its well worth a try.

Keith

 

Edited by BoldBear

Happiness is Fish shaped (it used to be woman shaped but the wife is getting on a bit now)

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Location, location, location.

It's not about finding the right bait, it's about finding the fish.

I used to hate matches in flood conditions because I was often drawn in a fishless desert where extracting a few ruffe or gudgeon from under my feet was the best I could hope for.

If you can find a cutting or stream mouth, things can be very different but failing that, I'd go with Phone's advice.

Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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Thanks, everyone. An interesting range of quite contrasting views, with Ken emphasising location, and Bold Bear the bait including flavouring.

I'm not into barbel at present, mainly because I think there are better places than my local stretch of the Thames.  But I think I know somewhere the chub will be, in a kind of relief channel, a bit like a lock cut with flow.  So I'm interesting in pursuing flavouring a bit, with the proviso that I start with just one flavouring otherwise I know they'll just line the shelf!

BB, if you could just use one flavouring what would it be? 'Bread spice' sounds interesting, as does the fact that it comes in a spray. But I can't seem to find it on the web. Do you know who market it? It sounds like something that could be useful in winter, whatever the conditions? I don't know whether it would appeal to roach?

john clarke

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Another thought, specially for Ken L - what about pike? I've only ever had one pike in very coloured water - in a lock cut on wobbled smelt when the main river was raging, but it happened to be a pb. Lure manufacturers claim that lures that rattle should catch pike in coloured waters, but is that really true?! Certainly, as a totally amateur lure fisher (when my back allowed) I found coloured water a disaster. But I should have thought the splash of  wobbled bait might still attract?

john clarke

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23 hours ago, The Flying Tench said:

Thanks, everyone. An interesting range of quite contrasting views, with Ken emphasising location, and Bold Bear the bait including flavouring.

I'm not into barbel at present, mainly because I think there are better places than my local stretch of the Thames.  But I think I know somewhere the chub will be, in a kind of relief channel, a bit like a lock cut with flow.  So I'm interesting in pursuing flavouring a bit, with the proviso that I start with just one flavouring otherwise I know they'll just line the shelf!

BB, if you could just use one flavouring what would it be? 'Bread spice' sounds interesting, as does the fact that it comes in a spray. But I can't seem to find it on the web. Do you know who market it? It sounds like something that could be useful in winter, whatever the conditions? I don't know whether it would appeal to roach?

I totally agree with Ken, location is the key as if the swim is devoid of fish you can’t catch them no matter what bait you are using 🙂 but having a flavour for Chub to home in once you’ve found them often gives you an advantage even more so in coloured water and very cold conditions.

I cant choose a single flavour as it depends largely on the water I am fishing and what works best on one river may not work quite as good on another river or stream.

Oops! When I wrote ‘Bread spice’ I actually meant ‘Bun Spice’ and the one I use comes as liquid in a small bottle which I dilute and put into a small spray bottle to spray onto my bait.

You can buy it on the web and here are a couple of links to some:

Indian Bun Spice

Bun Spice

I used to buy it from Geoff Kemp and I still have an old bottle somewhere.

Occasionally I also mix it with a pineapple flavouring to flavour boilees for Carp but the Bun Spice is quite strong so use It sparingly.

Keith

Edited by BoldBear

Happiness is Fish shaped (it used to be woman shaped but the wife is getting on a bit now)

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11 hours ago, The Flying Tench said:

Another thought, specially for Ken L - what about pike? I've only ever had one pike in very coloured water - in a lock cut on wobbled smelt when the main river was raging, but it happened to be a pb. Lure manufacturers claim that lures that rattle should catch pike in coloured waters, but is that really true?! Certainly, as a totally amateur lure fisher (when my back allowed) I found coloured water a disaster. But I should have thought the splash of  wobbled bait might still attract?

For pike, I would forget lures and wobbled deadbaits.

I've had a fair bit of success with sea deadbaits fished hard on the bottom with float ledger gear in flood conditions by fishing the aforementioned lock cuttings and stream mouths.

My local angling association doesn't allow livebaiting but I've seen enough big swirls in flooded lock cuttings to give serious consideration to a shallow fished livebait where it's allowed.

This really shouldn't come as a shock because the predators will follow the bait fish and either can reasonably be considered as an indicator for the presence of the other.

 

Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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All,

To some degree high turbidity is a common part of the equation in decision making primarily because of geography.

I mention this only because rarely on AN do we discuss the importance of a species lateral line sensitivity. Example: pike are sight feeders. The lateral line comes into play in "coloured" (I don't know this word) water. It is true motion and vibration become the key strike indication in these conditions.

For most of your coarse fish it would be a good idea to brush up on cyprid lateral lines by species (which will determine the feeding response and bait choice, especially flavour choices).

I cannot over emphasize the importance of the lateral line in ANY water condition

Phone

Edited by Phone
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