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#21 Wordbender

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 12:16 PM

Really glad to see the humour bypass operations went well guys :rolleyes:


Oi! I was being post-ironic, or something. Now then. :P
And on the eighth day God created carp fishing...and he saw that it was pukka.

#22 Severn Wolf

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 01:41 PM

Actually, thats got me thinking......

The swans down on the lake are a right pain in the backside. The main pick up spots are next to reedbeds in no more than three feet of water. The birds have an amazing knack of finding baited spots, we`re talking small PVA bags and maybe a spod or two (if possible). The water is gin clear until June which doesn`t help.

Now, they always manage to move onto the baits just before dark and even though I`ve not hooked one yet I know it`ll happen eventually (I reel in when they arrive...... :angry: ). They mess up the spot and a recast is always needed though not always successful due to the tricky nature of the bankside foliage......

So, I want to keep the swans away from the spots. I don`t use bait boats (have done once but don`t own one....) so resort to the good old catapult to get them out the area.

Now I know all our twitcher buddies will be up in arms about this but what else am I supposed to do? Let them take a baited hook? I`m not firing at them with malicious enjoyment ( :unsure: ) but need to get them well away from a potential catching area.

Surely a bait boat taken over to them and used as a bit of a prod and persuader is a lot more `swan friendly` than launching small pebbles at them via a catapult????

Thoughts?

Please, I really don`t need the `the birds have got every right to feed on your spot` rubbish. We`ve all been annoyed and have all reacted to their unwelcome interventions before now.

#23 johnhere

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 04:34 PM

Actually, thats got me thinking......

The swans down on the lake are a right pain in the backside. The main pick up spots are next to reedbeds in no more than three feet of water. The birds have an amazing knack of finding baited spots, we`re talking small PVA bags and maybe a spod or two (if possible). The water is gin clear until June which doesn`t help.

Now, they always manage to move onto the baits just before dark and even though I`ve not hooked one yet I know it`ll happen eventually (I reel in when they arrive...... :angry: ). They mess up the spot and a recast is always needed though not always successful due to the tricky nature of the bankside foliage......

So, I want to keep the swans away from the spots. I don`t use bait boats (have done once but don`t own one....) so resort to the good old catapult to get them out the area.

Now I know all our twitcher buddies will be up in arms about this but what else am I supposed to do? Let them take a baited hook? I`m not firing at them with malicious enjoyment ( :unsure: ) but need to get them well away from a potential catching area.

Surely a bait boat taken over to them and used as a bit of a prod and persuader is a lot more `swan friendly` than launching small pebbles at them via a catapult????

Thoughts?

Please, I really don`t need the `the birds have got every right to feed on your spot` rubbish. We`ve all been annoyed and have all reacted to their unwelcome interventions before now.



This is a tricky one but sorry yes the birds do have the right to be there more than us.
I donít think I would send my boat out to move the swans on. They have a very hard beak and massive feet and I can see them sinking my boat!
I never fire small stones (illegal by the way). I fire out old boilies taking the swans\ducks away from the area I am fishing. But it does not always work and they win. So all I do is enjoy watching them as I would otherwise go mad lol.
By the way the lake where I fish the swans are mad and do hiss and attack you, but apart from the beak and the feet can do you no harmÖ.no they cant break your arms or any bones for that matter.
If you ever do hook one then you are into a hell of a job to get it in. If you do, get your arms round it as soon as you can holding the back of the head. They go all soft when you do and pack up fighting.
One point to remember and I know this to be true as I have seen carp enter a swim where the swans have just fed, the swans disturb the bottom.

#24 Severn Wolf

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 05:25 PM

I never fire small stones (illegal by the way)


I`ll make sure they`re big ones then........... :D

#25 RobStubbs

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 07:38 PM

If they are diving in the area then I either don't bait it at all or bait it with tiny bit's like hemp. In day time I will cast towards them which can move them away (and probably buggers up the fishing). At night I've never found them a problem - I only seem to catch ducks at night.

The other thing is to bait up nearby with bread crust and hope to distract them out of the area.

Rob.

#26 Julian

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 11:00 AM

Swans might not be the most intelligent of creatures, but theyíre far from stupid. Iíve found that if they actually *see* you putting bait out, and more importantly, see where its going in, then they will investigate and log the spot to memory in order to keep going back for a mooch throughout the duration of your session Ė after all, youíre offering them a free meal. Wherever possible you should try to bait up when they are not looking or have their heads under water Ė it may be long winded and it might take you an hour to get your bait out but itís well worth the effort. If they donít see where itís going in they can only come over it by chance, but I find that if they know where other anglers bait is they will keep going back to their spots rather than spend time mooching for yours. If I arrive at a water and the swans are on the prowl I will just put single hookbaits out and bait up as Iíve described Ė wait till they have their heads under water, or keep an eye on them and as soon as they are out of sight get some bait in Ė just make sure they are out of sight of the spot you are baiting though, not just out of site of you. My usual trick is to wait till they are preoccupied on some other poor soulís bed of bait before I put mine out Ė works every time. Alternatively, I often wait until its gone dark before baiting up Ė you need to be accurate but itís very effective in keeping them off.

Thereís a water local to me where the swans have seen everything Ė anglers, dogs, shopping trolleys, bait boats, etc. They have now learned to associate bait boats with Ďlunchí and Iíve even seen then trying to get a mouthful before the bait has even been released from the boat! Raised more than a ripple of laughter, I can tell you. B)

As has been said, you donít get too much bother off swans during the night but they are prone to picking up baits at first light. Ducks are another story but the same applies. In addition Iíve seen/read a lot of evidence in the past to suggest that ducks can pick out almost any colour on the bottom bar shades of dark blue Ė and I know of several anglers who have adopted dark blue baits on waters where birdlife is a problem with great success Ė Not sure how scientific it is, and dare say somebody may be able to offer authority on how their sight works but itís food for thought.
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#27 cidermonkey

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 01:50 PM

I've heard the same Julian re the birds eyesight and blue. Wonder if any members with any scientific backgrounds can elaborate?

As far as swans go - in my experience - they ain't scared of nuffink! I walk round a lake every night with my labrador Molly and there are a pair with four cygnets on there. Molly had a go at them once (only barking at 'em) - and the bloody male jumped out of the lake and chased after her! Wings up, head down - ready for a proper row! I had to grab Molly 'cos I really thought they were gonna kick off big time, and they both would have got hurt. Now, when the swan sees the dog - wherever he is on the lake - he makes a beeline for her and follows us around the lake until we go! Although it could be just urban myth type gossip, several regulars on the lake claim to have seen this swan drown a dog and attempt to drown several others! :o

So - I reckon that you may well be able to move them on with a bait boat, but I also reckon the bait boat will get a severe duffing up in the process. :D
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#28 Newt

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 06:04 PM

I refer my honourable Merkin friend to the comment I made some posts ago. :P
'These things are entirely subjective and personal, of course, as is angling itself, and provided the rules and spirit of our sport are upheld, what you include in your angling world is your own business. ' ;)



Terry - we are in complete agreement here. I do not advocate any angler using gadgets, baits, tactics, techinques, that he/she is not comfortable with.

My post, while overstating just a smidge for effect, was a slam at the folks who try to tell others that using a particular legal gadget, bait, tactic, technique, makes them less of a 'real angler'.

Someone has in their signature words to the effect that 'it is not about how well you can cast but about how well you can fish the casts you can make'. That pretty well sums it up for me.
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#29 peter mccue

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Posted 20 November 2005 - 08:58 PM

My post, while overstating just a smidge for effect, was a slam at the folks who try to tell others that using a particular legal gadget, bait, tactic, technique, makes them less of a 'real angler'.

Someone has in their signature words to the effect that 'it is not about how well you can cast but about how well you can fish the casts you can make'. That pretty well sums it up for me.
[/quote]


I agree that this is a multi faceted sport of ours, & one mans heavy Carp hauling is another mans delicate Roach fishing. But within all our different styles there has to be restrictions that require a certain level of skill to overcome them, or else logic dictates that the end result is a progression of tactics that lead to us catching fish with the least possible effort. This would lead to very short term enjoyment & a severely reduced lack of satisfaction. The end result is we all lose.

Now obviously you need to be careful that you don't strangle development of tackle that allows you to cast further or improve your presentation etc. But, when you develop tactics that take a basic skill away from the sport you have to ask yourself whether or not you've dropped yourself down a rung or two on the ladder of acheivement, (sorry Newt) but you also have to ask yourself have I taken the easier less skilfull route.

To me, it's a little like lowering the net at Tennis, or removing the bunkers at Golf, or perhaps increasing the goalsize in football, all just to make it easier. In the end I think there is a case to be made for a set of rules that allow for improvement of skills but not a removal of them.
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#30 devonian

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 11:07 PM

My post, while overstating just a smidge for effect, was a slam at the folks who try to tell others that using a particular legal gadget, bait, tactic, technique, makes them less of a 'real angler'.

Someone has in their signature words to the effect that 'it is not about how well you can cast but about how well you can fish the casts you can make'. That pretty well sums it up for me.
I agree that this is a multi faceted sport of ours, & one mans heavy Carp hauling is another mans delicate Roach fishing. But within all our different styles there has to be restrictions that require a certain level of skill to overcome them, or else logic dictates that the end result is a progression of tactics that lead to us catching fish with the least possible effort. This would lead to very short term enjoyment & a severely reduced lack of satisfaction. The end result is we all lose.

Now obviously you need to be careful that you don't strangle development of tackle that allows you to cast further or improve your presentation etc. But, when you develop tactics that take a basic skill away from the sport you have to ask yourself whether or not you've dropped yourself down a rung or two on the ladder of acheivement, (sorry Newt) but you also have to ask yourself have I taken the easier less skilfull route.

To me, it's a little like lowering the net at Tennis, or removing the bunkers at Golf, or perhaps increasing the goalsize in football, all just to make it easier. In the end I think there is a case to be made for a set of rules that allow for improvement of skills but not a removal of them.






Your third paragraph if taken seriously would surly mean that the hair rig and all other self hooking rigs are by your own definition a" drop down the ladder of achievment" and "taking the easier less skilfull route"
Surely you should be sat watching a float or touch ledgering since this requires that YOU and not the terminal tackle do the hooking,after all what more basic skill is there in fishing then hooking a fish.
;)