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A few hours out yesterday.....


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#41 lutra

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 09:02 PM

I just hope they don't hybridise with the roach etc...that's all we need !  

I know they put up a better fight than either the roach or dace so they're ok to wind in but i'd rather they weren't there.

I think its possible and with chub, but Ide are quite early spawners so isn't known to happen much if at all in the UK, from what I just read.....


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#42 gozzer

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 11:53 PM

No sign of them taking over then John? 

Do they get to a good size in the river?

 

 I've not fished it for a few years Brian, and not heard anything about their numbers recently. They seemed pretty localised, you'd fish some swims and get 2 or 3, and not see any in other swims. I had them up to about 1lb, but heard of fish to 3lb. Like Ian, I didn't know what they were at first, until someone told me, and I got a book from the library to confirm it, (no google back then).

They can pull a bit for their size, and at first, that made me think that they could be hybrids.

 

John.


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#43 Martin56

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 01:06 AM

There's Absolutely not a chance that IDE can interbreed with Native species.

 

They are in fact Hybrid Carp & therefore Sterile.

 

They were Introduced into Commercial Lakes as a (cheaper than proper Carp) Match weight making species, & have a general longevity of around 4 years.

 

They then die off, & need to be restocked by the fishery owners.

 

Fear not!!!!

 

Fishery Sites which boast IDE as a target species are either out of date, or have re stocked.


Edited by Martin56, 23 August 2016 - 01:35 AM.

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#44 chesters1

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:43 AM

There's Absolutely not a chance that IDE can interbreed with Native species.
 
They are in fact Hybrid Carp & therefore Sterile.
 
They were Introduced into Commercial Lakes as a (cheaper than proper Carp) Match weight making species, & have a general longevity of around 4 years.
 
They then die off, & need to be restocked by the fishery owners.
 
Fear not!!!!
 
Fishery Sites which boast IDE as a target species are either out of date, or have re stocked.

Err ide are orf they are not crosses and can live 18 years and breed ,perhaps you are thinking of F1 's?

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#45 Steve Walker

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:27 PM

The orfe is simply a coloured variant of the ide, Leuciscus idus.



#46 Tigger

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:53 PM

I know a few people with orf in their garden ponds and they produce lots of off spring so i'd imagine Ide will also. 

 

Apparently F1's arn't all sterile and like many other hybrids / cross breeds such as horse X donkey (mules) some of them produce young.



#47 Martin56

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 11:34 PM

OK, so maybe I'm wrong & it appears that IDE are in fact a species in their own right. (In the wild state that is)

 

However, I was given to understand that the ones bred for commercials Are sterile, & therefore can't breed even with their own kind??

 

That would explain why many lakes which once contained a very good head of IDE 4 or 5 years ago, now contain very few.

 

They're clearly not breeding.

 

It's also held by most of our club members, that  the ones bred for commercial fisheries only have a life cycle of around 4 years.

 

An argument which stands up as we used to fish venues which were solid with them - They're not now!!


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#48 Tigger

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 09:29 AM

OK, so maybe I'm wrong & it appears that IDE are in fact a species in their own right. (In the wild state that is)

 

However, I was given to understand that the ones bred for commercials Are sterile, & therefore can't breed even with their own kind??

 

That would explain why many lakes which once contained a very good head of IDE 4 or 5 years ago, now contain very few.

 

They're clearly not breeding.

 

It's also held by most of our club members, that  the ones bred for commercial fisheries only have a life cycle of around 4 years.

 

An argument which stands up as we used to fish venues which were solid with them - They're not now!!

 

Interesting stuff there Martin, I hope your right....time will tell I suppose.

 

A good friend of mine does the envio studies for the canals and rivers trust, i'll ask him if he knows anything about them since he has a lot to do with stocking waters.


Edited by Tigger, 24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM.


#49 Steve Walker

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM

I think the lack of breeding success in orfe is probably down to unsuitable spawning habitat rather than sterility - they're river fish. Stillwater chub tend not to spawn successfully either. I've never had them successfully spawn in a pond, but Tigger has seen it, so if the conditions are right it must be possible.



#50 Tigger

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 12:55 PM

Blimey, I thought the forum was gone for good this time, although it might as well have been going off the amount of posters!

 

 

Anyhow, I had a day out trotting last Wednesday, but nearly turned the wheels round to go home as it was raining quite hard and the temp's had dropped to 16 degrees from over 20 a day or so previous.  When I got to the river I found it about a foot up and running with some colour but it still looked trottable. I'd picked this stretch as I didn't have to walk to far due to having injured my achilles  tendon and my back.  By the time i'd managed to hobble to the swim the rain had stopped and the sun had put in a brief appearance.  After several trotts through the swim I hooked a barbel but for some reason the hook came off leaving a pigtail of line that had been wrapped around it's shank.  I think the spade must have been faulty or i'd nicked the knot when cutting off the excess line.  After tying on another hook I got back to trotting and had a nice chub straight off.  From then on I caught about 12 to 15 chub varying from small up to about 4lb plus, three barbel and a trout.  Turned out an ok session but I think I aggravated my injuries as they're worse than they where nearly a week later!

 

august%2031%20barbel1.jpg

 

august%2031%20barbel%201.jpg


Edited by Tigger, 06 September 2016 - 03:35 PM.