Cornishman

I think you'll find they have been fined close to 800,000 pounds plus the cost of their own legal fees. Probably not far short of a million.

Colin W its about time you realise that anglers have been and will continue to land fish for profit without a licence. If a commercial breaks the rules they deserve to be prosecuted but to what level seems to be very inconsistant. There are good and bad in every walk of life and the sooner you realise this the better. I've witnessed the capture and landing of about 10 tons of pollack in the last few months by anglers who have paid a charter fee, the boat owner who is licenced then lands them for profit , what is he an angler or commercial. These pollack caght by bank managers, teachers , docters etc all reduce the quota for the commercials, is this fair?. I have mentioned the following before , if the so called 2 million anglers catch 1 bass a year this equates to about 1500 tons of bass, surely this must make a dent on stocks. There are plenty of other species that are heavily caught by the angling world . Anyhow gotta rush, agree or disagree the fact is lots of anglers sell their catch, ask any fish merchant.

I fully understand and respect the reasons to protect and conserve all types of marine organisms but sometimes the rules put in place to achieve this appear fantastic in principal but practically will have no positive effect. The market price for Tope is around 80p - £1.40 . Many boats will never need thier 45 kgs and some may land a few Tope in number every now and then but some boats have been known to catch between 500kgs - 1000kgs on occasions without targeting them, the situation now will see £1000 of dead tope being dumped back into the sea.

I still cant find the Tope rule on my licence either?. With the MFA doing a u-turn on the porbeagle front hopefully they'll revise the tope aswell. The word on the street is the number of Porbeagle's per landing is to increase to 13 if they have been caught accidentally, a move like this for tope would be sensible aswell. 45 kgs a day is not enough, the tope are still going to be caught and killed.

Last summer when we were paying 35- 40p the french were paying 20p after they had the subsidy.

The price of diesel is now 64p . Some supplies have indicated that it could reach 70p in the next few weeks. Some SW beamers are laying up with many small trawlers also contemplating their futures. With the price of petrol forcasted to hit £1.50 by the summer the price of diesel will probably be nearer 90p. Cant see many beamers operating on this price but i'm sure our EU cousins will continue to receive their fuel subsidies. Whatever line f work your all in I feel we're all in for a very rocky ride.

thedogs wrote-'I did hear that netted fish were being sold as line caught, dont know how true this is.' This did happen , a large fish firm from this end of the woods decided it would be a good idea to have their own tags made and attach them to netted bass. Luckily a handline fishermen noticed this in his local supermarket . I believe Trading Standards became involved which resolved the issue.

Defra need congratulating!. What planet are you from?. What difference do you honestly think this is going to make. Tope are still going to caught and thrown back dead, another massive step forward in fish conservation. I bet this consultation has cost millions of pounds and a few years to dream up, when you would get a more efficient measure from the nearest primary school. Its so convenient that our European neighbours are yet again unaffected. Out of interest was the idea of introducing an MLS ever discussed?.

'TWO men were arrested in Newlyn on Thursday concerning allegations from DEFRA relating toan alleged conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. The men aged 46 and 60,and from the Penzance area, were arrested on Thursday morning. A spokesman for DEFRA declined to comment. The two men were released on bail until February 5, 2008.' Published today in local paper, anyone know what its all about?.

There will be no increase in the MLS of Bass..

How would commercial fishermen be able to use rod and line fishing on a more efficient scale than the rsa barry?. Most of the charter boats in the SW take upto 12 men who are paying for the trip, these 12 men then catch a nice amount of pollack for the skipper/owner who over the season probably makes more through the sale of the fish than the fee paid by the passnegers. Are these people classed as commercial fisherman? I fish from a small port in SE Cornwall and now dont bother with pollacking because the marks are generally fished out or are being fished by a number of rsa's. Their landings also have an effect on the price because there is a greater and more consistant supply. I have also heard that it has gone this way down West aswell.

Hi Must go fishing. Must agree on closing fishing areas in spawning seasons. The trevose box which was lobbied for by fisherman and their representitives has been working resonably well I believe but as with most conservation measures that have been suggested inthe past 20 years we're still talking about them today whilst we still wrestle with the poorly managed and useless quota system. Not all the fish were that 'stamp' but the majority 80% are 1-2kgs with most of these being closer to 1 kg than 2kg. The problem here is pollack have increased in value over the past 5 years and the charter boats have realised that there ismore money in letting a dozen anglers catch small pollack for themal day than there is shifting from mark to mark trying to find larger fish. The fish were just gutted and some of the boats are licenced at quite an expense which relly proves their aim.Why spend 15-20 grand on a licence if you have no intension of making money with it. Two ton of pollack shared between 6 boats is only 330 kgs per boat this is around 400 fish so about 30-40 fish perman , quite realistic on an 8 hr trip.

In reply to MustGoFishing. All fishing vessels are restricted by quota allocations whatever their size. The way these allocations are handled do vary between over 10metres and under 10 . Most over 10 fish from 'pools' that consist of members own fish which is the track record attached to each boat which varies between species and weight. All this fish is 'pooled' and then shared equally between the members vessels. Some boats catch more of one specie than others so from month to month there are rises or decreases in allocation. For the under 10 Defra or now known as the MFA control the quota. Until recently there has been many occasions other than sole where the boats have had monthly allowances but as many over 10 owners have deccomissioned or sold up and then had massive under 10's built with oftengreater catching efficiency than their previous boat. Along with quota cuts this has led to greater pressure onthe under 10 fish pool and many species being given monthly limits i.e. cod,pollack.sole etc. As you say 50kgs is not lot and many tons of cod were dumped by <10's this winter from my home port. The MFA has recently allowed the leasing of fish for<10's but will review this for next year. Allow having to pay upto 60p a kilo for cod it beats throwing them back. Now we move onto your other concern of wreck fishing during spawnng months. 95% of the Pollack I catch in gill nets are 6lbs and over , this makes them around 6-7 years old I believe but feel free to correct me. The other 5 % are never below 4lb. These fishhave had 3-4 breeding years whereas the small 2-3lb pollack which are being heavily targeted by 6 charter boats consisting of upto 50 people have never spawned. This past weekend alone there was 2 tons of pollack landed by anglers which also has an effect on quota . Got to go but look forward to your reply

The measuremnt is from the tip of the nose to the tip of the tail ( the longest of the 2). The forks of the tail can be forced together which adds a few mm to the fishes overall length.

Thats because they are a coplete waste of yours and my council tax. I'm a commercial and I want more prosecutions to made by them. My name might give a clue to which sfc i'm policed by but they are powerless. They leave the harbour at 9.30 and return by 4, dont work weekends and probably do less than 100 days in 12months. You dont need to einstein to conclude what time is best to carry out your naughties.

Hello again. I'm a commercial ,I posted on here a fewweeks back. On the bag limits debate, i'm surprised to see that so many users of this site are against it. Many claim to return most if not all the fish they catch anyway so how would a bag limit affect you?.

Hi Cornishman, The same argument is with the rsa, surly he generates 'shore' jobs when he pursues his hobby. As you are aware the reason for bag limits at present is for the restriction of illegal bass sales. Do you know why your local sfc voted for it? I can see where you are comming from regarding catching from an unlicenced charter boat? Conservation is not the issue at present. With a full boat of say eight rsa i have never seen all of them catching say half a dozen each, some of them do but a lot don't. You need expert fisherman say the commercial in the portland race to make any differance to what i have just quoted. Even then he deserves all he catches with the rod and line as this could not possibly dent the stock in my mind. So it's ok for the commercial to fish the race full stop, but the rsa must be restricted. What do you think? What is your take on bag limits regarding the illegal selling of bass? What is your take on the mls size shortly to be imposed? What do you think of gill tags? Balls back in your court. Look forward to your reply, thanks. The rsa is catching fish for sport, this starts in the choice of bait , hooks , venue etc. Then hooking a fish , playing it if your lucky enough to have a big-un. Then landing it, maybe a quick picture or weigh it ,all of which could be completed in under 2 mins. Finally returning it to the sea to spawn again and grow larger ,which from what I read is on every anglers agenda. If you want to take a few home to eat then fair enough but wheres the sport in killing more?. I'm not that imformed on the 'race' but have heard about alot of bass being taken by anglers . Agree that angling provides jobs but compared to the commercial sector ?. Bag limits. I can't see a good case against them, unless of course they are being sold to top up wages or in many cases DSS in which case joe bloggs would want to retain as many as he could. Surely 3 fish is enough for anyone to eat. As pollack has increased in value during the summer months many anglers are targeting and selling these now,mostly 1 kilo fish . I would like to see a bag limit on all species but certainly on boat caught bass ,pollack and cod. MLS. Would like to have seen a EU wide mls introduced at 40cms to start with. Some commercials are against any increase but personally 40 cms seems sensible , as above a EU mls would be very much preferred. As for going higher , this would then start affecting us more but if there is a noticeble improvement in bass size after 2-4 years then maybe 42cms and then after another review perhaps there would be a case for 45cms. 55 cms is to much to even contemplate at this time if your livelihood depends on it. I realise some anglers feel strongly about the 4cms increase but it will help, they've argued the fact that an increase in size will help the stock, they've got this and a review for possibly more in the future but are still creating. Why do I never here about the EU case from anglers , surely you should be on this case aswell?. I admit a 36cms bass is small but I believe it used to be 30cms and the bass stock has grown to a quite healthy level today. Gill tags. If introduced for commercial fisherman only it could work but there are so many ways of abusing it and there could be problems with boats having good hauls of bass with no tags readily available.

Spider crabs have a huge part in the yearly calender for many south west inshore(6-12metres) boats. These are transported to the continent and until June-July when their numbers increase are well worth targeting.

Which do condone Leon? Catching as much as you like from a powered , licenced boat under quota restrictions whilst creating several shorebased jobs per 1 fisherman all contributing to the govenments pocket, which some where along the line filters through to pay for the MFA et al. or Catching as much as you like from a powered ,unlicenced boat . Are you for or against bag limits?. Any reasons?.

Hello again. Unfortunatlely weather has blown us in and is'nt looking very good for the week. I can't see what arguments you have against a bag limit. One minute your all calling for an increase in MLS of bass to produce a larger stock and increase the average size but when a little conservation is called for on your part there's uproar. If your estimate of 1-2 million anglers is correct then these are some estimates for the total weight of fish caught by anglers . I'll go on the basis of 1 million,makes calculating so much easier. 1 m anglers catch 1 bass per year and take home= 1000000kgs =1000tons = more than the UK bass landings!. " " " " 1 mullet per year = 1000000kgs =1000tons puts Sennen haul into perpective. I realise all anglers dont catch bass but the as you can see it adds up pretty quickly. I think its graet that angling provides enjoyment for so many and jobs for people but surely you have to give a little back aswell.

Leon- In reply to your first point , I like the sound of curfews but lets stick to the fishing. From your post I take it your not in agreement with the proposed bag limits. If so why? Secondly the rules on licencing of fishing vessels. To start you have to registered with the MCA at Cardiff this thenentitles you to licence your boat. To buy a licence you needto find one with similar vcu's , KW's and size. For a 9.99m boat with 120hp your looking at around 90 vcu's @ £ 180 without shellfish entitlement or £240 with so between £16000 and £24000. Any vessel no matter what size needs one with or without an engine as the formula shows. ( length x breadth)+( engine power x 0.45) or for a 3ft boat with no engine ((1m x 0.40)=0.40) + ((0 x 0.45) =0)=0.40 units. There are exceptions I believe for the seine gangs as they have a long history. Licences also increase in value when you exceed 10m and a quantity of quota is also needed. A boat 10.01 m licence would be around £350 a unit and would probably have in the region of £20000- £60000 worth of fish. Steve the charter boats are classed by themselves in ads etc. They do not have a fishing licence but I would imagine theyhold the required charter permit. Do the fish merchants buy the bass they are offered? Unfortunately ,yes they do . Barry- I was led to believe that the tags would be for commercial fisherman to help rid the system of anglers and part time cowboy fishermans bass. So by giving them to any Tom ,Dick and Elaine would make a mock. Cheers for a mo

Leon , I know several people who have licences taken away . The reason's were due to paperwork misunderstandings but it has happened. Fines add up and in most cases exceed licence value so in effect are more costly. On the spot fines really appeal to me as so many people get away with retaining undersized fish/shellfish because of the long winded court system. Get caught once get a warning ,twice a heavy fine , third time lose licence/permit. The licence implications on shore seining is'nt a stong point of mine, although I would agree that he boat used to shoot the net should be licenced. Steve , the vessels I refer to are classed as charter angling boats. People pay to go and catch fish for the day, when they have taken 2-3 each home for a feed the remainder find their way to market and get sold for profit or gain. This is illegal unless you hold a UK fishing licence which can only be applied to a UK registered fishing boat. If this bag limit is introduced then the charter boats will only be able to retain x number of fish per person making it easier to prosecute. Although the problem still arises , who will police this? It is a known fact that some anglers sell their catch. Being friendly with a number of fishmerchants who are regularly approached by anglers selling bass in fairly large numbers 5-50. These fish are often below the CFSC mlsof 37.5. I'm not stirring , just bringing it to your attention if you wern't aware. Not all anglers are bad guys , the same go's for us. Barry , the tagging scheme looks good on paper but there are problems as with most new ideas. Knowing how many bass you'll catch is one of them. As for this comment- ' if he gives some away to his friends or what ever he decides to do with the tags is up to him'. Well that is the whole point of the idea surely to remove any illegaly caught bass?.

Not all the charter boats are registered and licenced althoughcan still get away with landing pollack and cod . Because they have no licence the MFA are not interested because they can't take anything away from them i.e. licence. The vessel holds the licence to catch fish .

Steve Coppolo wrote- A commercial fisherman catches fish and sells them to make money. So is a charter skipper who sells the fish on a market or privately, which most do in the SW, a commercial fisherman?. Wurzel- as you can imagine the golden mile hasn't produced many smiles. It will affect hundereds of livelyhoods in Cornwall alone . A very high percentage of punt and tosher fishing is within a mile and usually during poor weather where a lee from the wind can be found. On the tagging issue. Who will pay for the tags?. How many should Joe Bloggs buy as he hasn't caught a bass for 5 years but had a 1000kgs haul in his trawl on a few occassions before ?.What if Joe is friendly with the angling fraternity and decides to distribute a few to them?. Back to the mullet , seining mullet from Sennen has been taking place for a very long time but they still continue to return in amounts worth catching. We have seen a huge increase in the number and size of mullet shoals in the past 3-5 years . As the minimum size for grey mullet is just 20cms maybe a raise in that would be helpful.

Hello again. The argument that a lot get killed anyway, so killing even more is perfectly acceptable, is a morally bankrupt argument. - Not my words Leon. Just raising the point that those mullet are not the only ones to be caught or affected by human activity. I like your figures on mullet value Leon but i've caught hundreds of mullet on a rod with less than a £50 investment. It depends on which slipper you want to make fit. 'Hello cornishman I've always reckoned a commercial fisherman is someone who catches fish and sells them to make money.' Hello Steve Coppolo. What are charter skippers classed as? Do they come under commercial fisherman , after all the capture of fish puts food on their tables.