close season avoidance

[Peter Waller]

You do need a licence to fish for migaratory trout and salmon in a river. You are right about the put and take still waters.

[trent.barbeler]

Dear Peter,

 

Good morning to you.

 

I've been talking to my local EA enforcement chapies about this one. And some local club committee officers.

 

In my area, EA enforcement will be out in force during the close season to ensure all the rules are adhered to. Shame they haven't enough money to undertake a similar forceful presence in the season once it begins but thats another story. Anyone caught breaking the law will be dealt with "accordingly" which as we all know means huge fines. Public shaming via the internet and possible ban off club waters.

 

All the clubs where I either know their officers personally (thats quite a lot by the way) or have direct contact via being a member of the same all say the same thing.

 

Our river, stream etc venues are CLOSED for the close season. And that includes ANY TYPE of fishing licensed or not. CLOSED means CLOSED.

 

Yes, there will be certain locations open to abuse. These are relatively few in comparison to the overal picture and the EA will be targetting these venues. The majority of others will of course be getting bailiffed by the clubs own bailiffs. These club bailiffs like always, can rely fully on EA enforcement and the police for back up if closed season laws are broken.

 

And why anyone would want to risk flouting the rules when their are more stillwaters to fish than one can point a rod at baffles me totally.

 

I'm off to be "fitted" for new rods this morning. Taylor made jobbies in the Avon class at 1lb 6oz test. Lots of my own "barbeler" specifications to be included. I will only be using the one at any one time but wanted the matching pair

 

I only use one rod now and never ever use buzzers anymore. Might even buy a new centre pin to go with em!!

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[Nugg]

kleinboet:

Can anyone tell me about licencing for the fishing for Tout in rivers?  I always thought that I needed a Trout licence for them.  I thought that the non-migratory Trout listed on my coarse licence applied to Trout in 'put-n-take stillwaters.

Your coarse licence covers you for non-migratory, thats fish that don't come here to breed in our rivers, Sea Trout and Salmon do so you need another, game licence to fish for these.

Brown and Rainbow Trout do not migrate they live here all the year through, whether they are in a pool, lake, pond or river, your coarse licence allows you to fish for them, any closed season or club rules apply of course.

[Peter Waller]

Lee, with you on all the points mentioned. Mind you, I thought it was only artificial legs that you had 'fitted'.

 

Yes, closed should mean closed. I wish Anglian Region would adopt the same policy.

[trent.barbeler]

Dear Peter,

 

Apparently, the "fitting" bit is the length of cork handle preferred so said rod/s nestle snuggly from wrist to elbow with correct balance etc. And get this, I've had ring spacings done to facilitate maximum efficiancy when touch ledgering??!! Yep, that one had me bamboozled at first until the Walker specie expert Shaun Harrison explained how this works in principle. Absolute bang on old fashioned silver service at Walkers of Trowell.

 

Purchased a new "Okuma" epix EPR 30 reel AND a genuine Orvis USA hat PLUS a Canadian made camo coat that set me back 240 sobs. "Sport chief" the name is made from Aquatex in Advantage "timber" pattern so it is. Now I can fish up trees for barbel and become one. A tree that is. Those barbel wana-be's won't see me now!!!

 

I like the close season on rivers as I see no harm from putting something back instead of taking out all the time. Common sense really. I fear though that man is walking backwards on many conservation fronts for all the fine words. As such, I expect the close season will eventually fall and pressure on clubs opposed to open all hours fishing will become too much.

 

Man is but a long book of days. And in many respects, his days are getting shorter.

 

Thats why I've brought the camo coat and old fashioned hat. Now I can stand against a tree unseen whilst the world passes me by in its rush. The hat is there to remind me of the good old days. There against the tree, my world will last forever.

 

Fat chance unfortunately. But I'll still have the nice hat and flashy coat.

 

Viva one rod none buzzer anglers. And a plague of mice be upon those opposed to the retention of the rivers close season.

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

 

PS. I may be gone some time. My eyes are fixed upon an unopened bottle of Irish malt and as soon as I find a glass, its done for.

[Peter Waller]

Just take the cork out and swig it!! Basically I agree with all your afore mentioned principles, except the choice of fabric design!

[Peter Waller]

Go to http://www.predator-people.co.uk/trips-clo...osedseason.html and read the 'fly-fishing' paragraph. It seems pretty blatent to me! What do you think? The other chief offender just suggests in his adverts that you phone and ask about fly fishing! If, like me, you are opposed to such antics then please write, or e.mail, to the EA and have your say, please.

[trent.barbeler]

Dear Peter,

 

I've read the bit you highlighted and it seems a bit of a "grey" area to me. I also admit to never having heard of any of the guides as listed on the website. Then again, that doesn't mean anything as I'm not a dyed in the wool piker.

 

One thing that does stick out like a 15 metre pole on a five foot wide stream is the commercialism of the thing. Am I correct in assuming that money is the common factor here? As in a group of blokes making their living from this guiding business? If that’s the case Peter then one can hardly blame them for wanting to earn a living?

 

That said, if any impropriety is going off regarding the close season laws I'm sure the EA will be hot on their heels if that proves to be the case.

 

I'm always amazed how these angling guides manage to make a living as there are so many of them around now a days. I would have thought that any half decent angler in any local club would undertake such services for free?? Traditionally this has always been the case surely? It is after all, only a bit of course fishing when all said and done. Perhaps it’s a hero worship thingmy for some who are eager to go fishing with these chaps. Perhaps some can’t tell a rod from a rod rest? Who knows? One things for sure though, there seems to be enough punters around eager to try their arm. Good luck to em I say but it’s not for me. I'm crap and I want to stay that way. (That’s a joke by the way cos I'm an extremely good angler who just happens to pass on certain skills to others for now't.) I'm also extremely modest.

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[Peter Waller]

Most guides charge £150 or so for a days guiding on the Broads, an ideal service for the incapable client! They do make a living. One I know has his navy pension to back him up, helps out with the computer at a tackle shop and has been known to work behind a bar. But their pricing structure should allow for a three month lay off so I have no sympathy from that angle. Afterall, they have chosen to make a living in that manner.

 

As for the hero worship thingy, in whose eyes are they the hero? The term 'hero in their own tackle box' springs to mind on this one. And I'm not thinking of fishing tackle!!

 

[ 14. March 2004, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Peter Waller ]

[argyll]

Stick with the facts Peter, it'll make more sense if you dont try to mislead people and goad them into some absurd campaign of vilification of guides, or should I say one in particular. The rate isn't £150 per day its usually £90-100 per day, far less than I made when I worked on the Local Government treadmill for far less hours per week and there's also a fair chance that he'll stop halfway and buy you a pub lunch. Rarely do people want to stay out there long enough to warrant a fee of £150. The guide that you allude to does not accept weekend bookings and doesn't work every monday to friday, the weather and personal circumstances sometimes getting in the way. So much for the 'greed' aspect.

Second fact that seems to have slipped from sight is that this same guide spends most of his close season time on the noted Norfolk brown trout waters, Anglian reservoirs and the odd stillwater. Like it or not he occasionally fishes for trout. For the benefit of those that dont know, I regularly fish with this guide both as a client and as a friend, so I do know the facts. Which brings me to the third point, your suggestion that guides cater for 'incapable clients'. I use a guide because I dont have time to lift my own boat out of the Thames, trail it 140 miles, slip it in Brundall, lift it at the end of the day, trail it 140 miles back to Penton Hook, off the trailer, back onto its mooring and then get myself home. Who would want to do something like that when they can quite simply drive up to Brundall and use someone elses boat and boatmanship? Neither am I in the minority. Pete Wadeson who regularly writes for predator publications uses this particular guide in much the same way as I do, as do countless others who would I'm sure be very unhappy to be described as 'incapable'. Its a fact, sorry it doesn't quite fit into the scenario that you are trying to place in front of everyone. For the record, in the season before last I had three twenties from the Thames and last season three 3lb plus Thames perch and a 5lb chub all on lures. There's enough there to decide on my level of capability. It should be recognised also that those beginners that do use a guide will have a fair chance of catching a fish but more important, will go home with at least a notion of the right way to handle and release a pike and none of us should have a problem with that.

Noting some of the other comments from other posters, please remember that no laws have been broken, unlike for example trolling under power (sorry I meant power drifting) on the Broads. Any views about that Peter? I wouldnt for a moment suggest that I've seen you do it. There are also those that have a lot to say about guides and the way that they do business who are quite happy to shuffle a few livebaits around one or two waters, or to fish three rods on a two rod licence or 'guest' on a private water from time to time. All illegal activities but for some reason are treated as just a bit of bravado. A laddish thing. What the bailiff or the EA don't see, the heart dont grieve. But nevertheless illegal.

 

What also mystifies me is that whilst the red mist comes down when talking about one particular Norfolk guide, you have a 'can do no wrong' view of another Norfolk guide. The same guide who last year was pictured holding up the remains of a so-called 60lb pike that was hooked by a local poacher from a private broad (the 'bravado' scenario again) on insufficent end tackle on which it choked. The whole thing was outed as a cheap publicity stunt(The fish being closer to 30lb than 60lb) The same guide who reported in one paper that he doesnt fish for summer pike because of the dangers of damaging the fish and yet in reality does precisely that, including a recent appearance on the Predator series. I couldn't help but notice that your view at the time was not particulalry harsh. Well he's a bit of a character isn't he? Nice old bloke really. No Peter he's just another guide trying to make a living and in doing so, doesn't mind a bit of misleading subterfuge and his face in the angling press. I therefore wonder if this whole issue is really just a personality clash and nothing to do with fishing? no it surely couldnt be, could it?

I would also suggest that speculating about other peoples sources of income might get you into a whole world of agrevation, apart from the fact that its wholey irrelevant. Its got you into trouble in the past on this forum and it may well do again.

We are stuck with antiquated and often confusing bye-laws relating to the close season that say we can fish enclosed waters (unless its a landlocked Broad) and canals unless a site of special interest but not rivers (well not all rivers and not parts of all rivers) None of which makes sense. Pike are more at risk in enclosed waters than rivers, but we have bye-laws that suggest the opposite. Then there is the aspect of fishing for trout during the coarse close season. I fish the Thames, its my home water and I spoke to the EA three years ago to find out where I stood in relation to Thames trout. I have caught two in my lifetime on fly and spinner and I thought I should check out the legal position if I decided to target trout in the Thames. The EA said two things, 'yes' I could fish for Thames trout so long as I used accepted trout fishing methods and 'yes' it was inevitable as a by-catch that coarse fish would come my way and that as long as they were immediately released, that was also acceptable. I had one or two forays after trout in the Thames weirpools but decided that the odds were too heavily stacked aainst me and besides winter weirpools can be dangerous places to be. However I disagree with this view that somehow the abilty to fish for trout should relate to some mystical element of the percentage chance of catching one. If they are there and its legal then go for it, its called fishing. Not easy but not impossible.

How about this for an anomoly. My marina is rated by the EA as a stillwater, how can this be? theres a bloody great frontage onto a living breathing flowing river Thames. No locks, no barriers and yet its classed as a stillwater and yes I take advantage of the fact that I can fish from my moored boat for any species I choose. I believe my actions are no more unprincipled than those that choose to fish a lake or pit. Same fish, same season, different location.

If you want to put your rods away during the close season do so, but dont expect everyone to follow, its a matter of personal choice. If you want to protest to the EA about anything then protest about the close season shambles that they are currently responsible for. Either we have a close season or not, no half measures, no 'get out clauses' no ifs' 'buts' and 'maybes'

 

Charlie Bettell (thats the guides name for the benefit of those that haven't quite figured out who this whole saga is about) is not the real issue but if you want to resolve whatever is bugging you Peter then I would respectfuly suggest that you pop around to his house, knock on the door and invite him out for either a drink or a fight, either of which might just provide a solution. Spring arrives around this time every year and as sure as eggs are eggs, two things immediately occur. The sound of cuckoos and the sound of Peter on several different forums looking for Charlie's testicles on a plate. Two remarkably similar things.

 

[ 15. March 2004, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: argyll ]