MCZ Proposals

[big_cod]

Collin I am sure that most commercial fishermen are open to suggestions regarding commercial fishing as long as it is commercially viable at the end of the day.

A commercial fisherman could well look at an angling boat steaming past him with a boat load of fish; with no accountability to anybody the same as you look at the bulldozer driving Sheppard.

 

And maybe if there hadnt been thousands of tons of discards over the last 25 years we might not be in the position we are now

as for accountability you werent accountable when you were shovelling box after box of dead undersized codling back over the side when you were commercial fishing if joe public really new what went on but for a lot peoples sakes its good job they dont.

 

paul.

Edited November 17, 2009 by big_cod

[big_cod]

No-one has ever said that commercial fishing is inherently bad. It's the way modern commercial fishermen choose to do it that is bad. If a shepherd chose to round up his flock with a bulldozer then most people would say that was bad. That doesn't mean it's bad to breed and kill sheep.

 

Bang on colin .

 

paul.

[steve good]

DISCARDS

 

Its all very well people blaming commercial fishermen for the discards regarding cod, discards are the direct result of decreasing quotas, decreasing quotas are the direct result of mismanagement.

 

There was no problem with the UK fish stocks before joining the commen market we had the riches waters in europe.

 

SO how have we arrived at this situation of cod discards, its a combination of alot of things:------------------

 

Industrial fishing for sandeels reduced the food chain for cod, and cod two inches long were landed by way of by-catch, tons of them.

 

Aggregate dredging areas some 1500 square kilometres of breeding and feeding grounds were and still are being destroyed

 

Mortaility by commercial fishimen.

 

Mortaility by anglers

 

A major factor is equal access for all european fishermen, (The CFP failed because of this) euro fishermen can in most areas fish up to our six mile limit which means that theres been a hugh increase in fishing effort, this is moible fishing effort and is unresticted in where it can fish

 

Also its unknown what effect global warming has had, there are now more bass up the east coast (all the way to Scotland) than on the south coast

 

All these factors reduced the cod bio-mass so the EU decreased the quotas which then increased the discards the more and more they reduce quota the more and more the discards will be, every bodies played there part in creating discards the commercial fishermen have been left holding the baby

 

The CFP will never work the Marine Bill and NTZ's will never work because of this European moible fishing effort, it just travels around hovering up all the fish stocks and moves on to find more, NTZ's will work to some degree but not with fish.

 

The only answer to the problem is quite simple, the CFP should be scraped the European Union should then return all fishing rights back to what they used to be, so we, along with all other member states get our old fishing limits back and manage our own fishing. The European moible fishing effort would then be reduced because it will spread out over the whole of the european waters and unable to concentrate itself like it does at present

 

In some cases some fish would remain in our waters all year round and with good management these stocks would greatly increase.

 

In a sense it looks like the marine bill is trying to achieve this by inshore and offshore NTZ's it will not work because of the European moible fishing effort will still be there.

 

Discards are created by all stakeholders commercial fishermen are at the end of the chain thats created them

 

I had Better duck for cover and come back at xmas LOL LOL LOL

Edited November 17, 2009 by steve good

[barry luxton]

yes, very good, please don't hide till xmas though, compared with the greeny stance, ntz that some are proposing against the nasty anglers, you definatly have something that can be built on. Off to work, so i can't add to it at the mo.

[big_cod]

DISCARDS

 

Its all very well people blaming commercial fishermen for the discards regarding cod, discards are the direct result of decreasing quotas, decreasing quotas are the direct result of mismanagement.

 

There was no problem with the UK fish stocks before joining the commen market we had the riches waters in europe.

 

SO how have we arrived at this situation of cod discards, its a combination of alot of things:------------------

 

Industrial fishing for sandeels reduced the food chain for cod, and cod two inches long were landed by way of by-catch, tons of them.

 

Aggregate dredging areas some 1500 square kilometres of breeding and feeding grounds were and still are being destroyed

 

Mortaility by commercial fishimen.

 

Mortaility by anglers

 

A major factor is equal access for all european fishermen, (The CFP failed because of this) euro fishermen can in most areas fish up to our six mile limit which means that theres been a hugh increase in fishing effort, this is moible fishing effort and is unresticted in where it can fish

 

Also its unknown what effect global warming has had, there are now more bass up the east coast (all the way to Scotland) than on the south coast

 

All these factors reduced the cod bio-mass so the EU decreased the quotas which then increased the discards the more and more they reduce quota the more and more the discards will be, every bodies played there part in creating discards the commercial fishermen have been left holding the baby

 

The CFP will never work the Marine Bill and NTZ's will never work because of this European moible fishing effort, it just travels around hovering up all the fish stocks and moves on to find more, NTZ's will work to some degree but not with fish.

 

The only answer to the problem is quite simple, the CFP should be scraped the European Union should then return all fishing rights back to what they used to be, so we, along with all other member states get our old fishing limits back and manage our own fishing. The European moible fishing effort would then be reduced because it will spread out over the whole of the european waters and unable to concentrate itself like it does at present

 

In some cases some fish would remain in our waters all year round and with good management these stocks would greatly increase.

 

In a sense it looks like the marine bill is trying to achieve this by inshore and offshore NTZ's it will not work because of the European moible fishing effort will still be there.

 

Discards are created by all stakeholders commercial fishermen are at the end of the chain thats created them

 

I had Better duck for cover and come back at xmas LOL LOL LOL

 

Steve in real terms quota werent being inforced properly till about 6 or 7 years ago they never existed but the damage was allready done cast your mind back to the 70ss and the 80ss i remember them very well its was rank with cod from all sizes from tidd codlings upto sprags and even big cod still in numbers but over the last 30years instead of haveing 120ml or 140ml codlend something simliar as to what iceland uses it was 80ml then increased 100ml inthe last 30years its has been litterally slaughter at times unfortunatlty our friend challenge will never admit it because he took part in it when he was trawling the damage which was done over the last 30years will take many years to repair itself there isnt a 20th in numbers of cod what there was in the 80ss as there is now they admit discards were a massive problem you dont get the discards like you used to because there isnt the fish there to discard apart from the herring spawn period when fish are drawn from miles and miles around into a very small area then you are talking slaughter why do the forae islands have 12 mile limit for trawling line fishing is done inside the zone and very sucessfully they realize it makes sense to have this limit .

 

paul.

 

paul.

Edited November 17, 2009 by big_cod

[steve good]

Steve in real terms quota werent being inforced properly till about 6 or 7 years ago they never existed but the damage was allready done cast your mind back to the 70ss and the 80ss i remember them very well its was rank with cod from all sizes from tidd codlings upto sprags and even big cod still in numbers but over the last 30years instead of haveing 120ml or 140ml codlend something simliar as to what iceland uses it was 80ml then increased 100ml inthe last 30years its has been litterally slaughter at times unfortunatlty our friend challenge will never admit it because he took part in it when he was trawling the damage which was done over the last 30years will take many years to repair itself there isnt a 20th in numbers of cod what there was in the 80ss as there is now they admit discards were a massive problem you dont get the discards like you used to because there isnt the fish there to discard apart from the herring spawn period when fish are drawn from miles and miles around into a very small area then you are talking slaughter why do the forae islands have 12 mile limit for trawling line fishing is done inside the zone and very sucessfully they realize it makes sense to have this limit .

 

paul.

 

paul.

 

Hi Paul

 

Ever since I have had a licence cod has had a quota, and in our area v11d they have allways enforced all quotas.

 

The damage over the last 30 years that you refer to has been done collectively by all stakeholders.

 

As you say that in the 70's and 80's there was alot of cod about, here on the south coast we received one third of the channel cod quota while the French received the other two thirds of the quote, this ment the UK had to discard after the quota run out.

 

The major factor for the decrease in cod stocks and failure of the CFP was the equal right of access which aloud most EU member states fishing fleet to fish up to the six mile limit. This increased fishing presure in the 6-12 mile zone with such a large capatcity which was moible the cod stock could not sustain this amount of fishing effort.

 

England has never had much of a trawler fleet over the past 20 years just small boats like mine, the european fleets that fish the 6-12 mile are very large boats/ships that have trawls that could scope up half of Whitby in one tow,

 

If we returned to our old fishery limits the fleet capatcity ie fishing effort would no longer be there, England no longer has much of a fishing fleet just whelks boats thats what our industry has been reduced to, by lack of quota, with the right management some fish stocks would do really well

 

Now we got fisheries management by Europe, Defra, sfc, the greens, CFP and the Marine Bill mix it all together and what have you got, one big mess thats where we are heading and who is going to lose the most yep anglers and commercials English ones that is, who's going to gain the most Europe

 

steve

Edited November 17, 2009 by steve good

[big_cod]

Hi Paul

 

Ever since I have had a licence cod has had a quota, and in our area v11d they have allways enforced all quotas.

 

The damage over the last 30 years that you refer to has been done collectively by all stakeholders.

 

As you say that in the 70's and 80's there was alot of cod about, here on the south coast we received one third of the channel cod quota while the French received the other two thirds of the quote, this ment the UK had to discard after the quota run out.

 

The major factor for the decrease in cod stocks and failure of the CFP was the equal right of access which aloud most EU member states fishing fleet to fish up to the six mile limit. This increased fishing presure in the 6-12 mile zone with such a large capatcity which was moible the cod stock could not sustain this amount of fishing effort.

 

England has never had much of a trawler fleet over the past 20 years just small boats like mine, the european fleets that fish the 6-12 mile are very large boats/ships that have trawls that could scope up half of Whitby in one tow,

 

steve

 

 

Steve the bottom line is overfishing down your neck of the woods you say small boats are the norm thats how it going here but that was most defernetly not the case a few years ago whitby go back in the 80ss there has something like 18 trawlers from whitby all working rockhopper gear plus scarborough,hartlepool, sheilds ,grimsby many boats working rockhopper gear for whitefish can you tell me why whitings are no where near what they used to be ,haddocks are so scarce it nowdays it sad you could just keep going sometimes when i have customers on when they see a trawler they think it spanish when i tell its one of ours they ask why are trawling so close in the thing is steve it couldnt stand the effort it couldnt in 70ss or the 80ss it was going to end as it is now but who do you blame now thats a good one.

 

paul.

Edited November 17, 2009 by big_cod

[glennk]

Its sad Paul but your shouting too late. We've known each other a lot of years and I know your an easy going bloke who doesn't like to cause trouble. You have always known about black fish, even witnessing it going onto waggons. I always told you to say something but you said it was wrong to do that and would upset a lot of people so you remained silent. Also you would never mention anything about huge discards, again because you didn't want to upset people. What I said at the time and I would say again to all the charter skippers, you have to stand up and fight because I am damn sure the NFFO will not pay your wages once they have put you out of business. Its a double edged sword they have. They have knackered the fishing and now they have the lobbying power and they want you restricted so they can have the last few fish. In the long run the only people fishing will be those who have screwed it for the rest of us.

[steve good]

Its sad Paul but your shouting too late. We've known each other a lot of years and I know your an easy going bloke who doesn't like to cause trouble. You have always known about black fish, even witnessing it going onto waggons. I always told you to say something but you said it was wrong to do that and would upset a lot of people so you remained silent. Also you would never mention anything about huge discards, again because you didn't want to upset people. What I said at the time and I would say again to all the charter skippers, you have to stand up and fight because I am damn sure the NFFO will not pay your wages once they have put you out of business. Its a double edged sword they have. They have knackered the fishing and now they have the lobbying power and they want you restricted so they can have the last few fish. In the long run the only people fishing will be those who have screwed it for the rest of us.

 

Hi Glennk

If you could just broaden your horizons, just a tad you would make a great angling representitive

 

steve

[Guest challenge]

Hi Glennk

If you could just broaden your horizons, just a tad you would make a great angling representitive

 

steve

Steve

I totally agree, in fact I have recommended him to others.

 

Big cod, you can point the finger at me as much as you want (regarding undersize codlings) I have told you before, I never experienced any mass discards of undersize codlings while I was commercially fishing. Sorry if you’re not happy with that but that is the truth. I was commercial fishing for 14 years I finished in 89 and it’s certainly a different fishery today inside than it was then.

I am not going to say any different Paul because from my experience of commercial fishing (and let not forget that you have none) that’s simply the way it was for me.

Regards.