Angling Trust Forum

[Worms]

By choosing to fight as individuals, you have chosen to be irrelevant,

Exactly, we have chosen to be individual. We haven't paid to be elitist rank and file. If your interpretation is that the majority of anglers are irrelevant then I'm sure those anglers are probably glad that they haven't paid £20 to share your blinkered and selfish views.

 

If the AT aren't prepared to regard the vast majority of anglers as they promised and they limit their decision making to listening to specialist anglers with a superiority complex then the AT will fail.

 

Brotherhood of the angle? no, selfish elitism? yes.

 

I'll say it again, bloody disgraceful!

[gozzer]

I am leaving the handful of dinosaurs that exist on here to it, not because I feel intimidated ,threatened or even bested by sound logical argument , nor do I deserve or require a medal , please don't delude yourselves , although it is true, delusion is rife amoung you, you are not scarey in the slightest.

 

The fact is ,you have zero influence , your comments carry no weight or sway, your "fight" is already lost, the penny is yet to drop still!!!! and I can see the futilty of trying to persuade any of you to the contrary, I simply cannot be bothered to even try, ......why do you think the main players of the Angling Trust do not indulge you on here?

 

By choosing to fight as individuals, you have chosen to be irrelevant,

 

 

I wish you all the best with your futile rants and whinges on here.................whatever floats your boat I guess?

 

 

Regards and a happy new year, to each and every one of you.

 

Bob.

 

Whoa there Bob, That post has not done you or AT any good, in fact it's done the opposite, by endorsing the attitude I've heard from many pro AT anglers on various forums. The "you're either with us, or against us", and "you are irrelevant", is not going to promote the AT amongst us "dinosaurs", or anyone else with a modicum of independent thought.

I can promise you this Bob, this "dinosaur", is not ready for extinction just yet, and comments like the ones you've made above just make me more determined to make my "delusional" voice heard even louder.

 

John.

[Bob Bradford]

Exactly, we have chosen to be individual. We haven't paid to be elitist rank and file. If your interpretation is that the majority of anglers are irrelevant then I'm sure those anglers are probably glad that they haven't paid £20 to share your blinkered and selfish views.

 

If the AT aren't prepared to regard the vast majority of anglers as they promised and they limit their decision making to listening to specialist anglers with a superiority complex then the AT will fail.

 

Brotherhood of the angle? no, selfish elitism? yes.

 

I'll say it again, bloody disgraceful!

 

Once again you have taken my words in the wrong way, let me spell it out one more time,

 

By choosing to stay outside angling's only representative organisation to Government, ECHO aside, you only achieve one thing, and that is to be irrelevant to Government, I really cannot put this significant point any clearer , there is nothing "elitest" in joining the Angling Trust if you live in England, the doors are open to all.

 

Sorry John, but you are delusional if you think you can make a significant difference as an individual, who will listen to you?

 

I am disillusioned at the majority of anglers in England, the recent EA on-line survey regarding the proposed new by-laws concerning the removal of fish for the pot etc, is a perfect example of non action, disinterest and total indifference by the majority, anglers refuse to take responsibilty, that is why an organisation (AT) with an individual membership of nearly 14,000 is able to drive angling policy's , it is not brain surgery, in todays society , you have to pay to have a say, I do not make the rules, but thems the rules! embrace that simple concept, and change angling for the better from within, that is the challenge, that is what any angler worthy of the name should be doing, taking responsibilty, surely that is far more productive than a self imposed exile based on a point of principle? I really am baffled at the lack of logic used in this instance.

 

I am doing it again! ,banging my head against the wall, and a pound to a penny , subsequent posts on this thread will endorse my earlier view , of one of futility trying to convince a handful of people that simply refuse to listen to reason.

[Worms]

Once again you have taken my words in the wrong way,

No you were rude, patronising, condescending and you acted like a selfish spoilt 'oik'

let me spell it out one more time,

 

By choosing to stay outside angling's only representative organisation to Government, ECHO aside, you only achieve one thing, and that is to be irrelevant to Government, I really cannot put this significant point any clearer , there is nothing "elitest" in joining the Angling Trust if you live in England, the doors are open to all.

Let me spell it out one more time! You have chosen to pay your money to a non-elected organisation that has claimed it will help all anglers (regardless of whether they pay) but has singularly failed to support angling at all. Far from it, they have pandered to the minority of people who were informed about the consultation and sided with them after the event. They change their mind about whether they are or not a representative organisation to government as often as the wind changes. Who gave them the right to stand up for anglers in the first place. I wasn't asked as a rod licence payer and I don't know who else was.

 

Sorry John, but you are delusional if you think you can make a significant difference as an individual, who will listen to you?

 

 

I am disillusioned at the majority of anglers in England, the recent EA on-line survey regarding the proposed new by-laws concerning the removal of fish for the pot etc, is a perfect example of non action, disinterest and total indifference by the majority, anglers refuse to take responsibilty, that is why an organisation (AT) with an individual membership of nearly 14,000 is able to drive angling policy's , it is not brain surgery, in todays society , you have to pay to have a say, I do not make the rules, but thems the rules! embrace that simple concept, and change angling for the better from within, that is the challenge, that is what any angler worthy of the name should be doing, taking responsibilty, surely that is far more productive than a self imposed exile based on a point of principle? I really am baffled at the lack of logic used in this instance.

 

Neither was I informed by the EA about the consultation, nor were the vast majority of 1.5 million rod licence holders. So, don't start getting uppity and knowall about things that only a few were privileged to. Try listening to what is being said. The reason for the "non action, disinterest and total indifference by the majority, anglers refuse to take responsibilty" is.....THE VAST MAJORITY OF ANGLERS KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE CONSULTATION AND A LOT STILL DON'T That is why they didn't respond to it, not through apathy. The AT knew that anglers didn't know about it though...through this forum, yet Mark Lloyd chose to go his own sweet way.

 

I am doing it again! ,banging my head against the wall, and a pound to a penny , subsequent posts on this thread will endorse my earlier view , of one of futility trying to convince a handful of people that simply refuse to listen to reason.

No you are banging your head against a wall of your own making. The futility is that you can't understand the simple fact that the vast majority of anglers in this country are ignored by the govt, their self elected "representatives" and the naive few that do think that the AT are really all powerful and full of pro-angling sweetness.

 

Just take a few moments to absorb and reflect on these words again...THE VAST MAJORITY OF ANGLERS KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE CONSULTATION AND A LOT STILL DON'T

 

Does that change your views just a tiny bit?

[barry luxton]

As a sea angler. i certainly wasn't aware of the fresh water consultation was to have an effect on me until the EA had announced a ban on eel collection by rod and line out to six mile, so i was certainly duped. Remember also, just on this one tiny point, the AT was involved in the drafting of these restrictions, proposels, so why didn't they make all anglers aware, what went wrong.

 

The EA cleverly put together the consultation paper, with the at's help? To tick box yes please for a ban, if you don't beleive me go and read it again. You had to have your wits about you to block their usless proposel re the eel out to six mile in any event.

 

Now it's the turn of the mcz's. Yet again this AT are backing the likes of the mcs who have very cleverly yes ticked boxed the idea of lots of ntz's don't beleive me go and have a read.

 

 

must smack me hand, i'm beginning to shout

Edited January 4, 2010 by barry luxton

[Steve Walker]

What is the point in supporting the AT if it will never speak for you? The AT speaks for the AT, or more to the point, it speaks for the self-appointed rentagobs who have declared themselves our kings. Forgive me if I don't bow down at their feet.

[Bob Bradford]

Worms do not start with the insults, I do not wish for this to turn ugly.....right?

 

Look, the EA are agents of the Government, the EA have not consulted (other than an on-line survey, to my knowledge at least) with the majority of anglers, a small minority of anglers, including myself have responded, THESE ARE THE ANGLERS THE EA WILL TREAT AS RELEVANT.............together with the views of the Angling Trust, of which 4 or 5 members ,including yours truly and Steve Coppollo, have responded to the CEO's request for input on the Angling Trust forum for all to see............that's it, there is no more!!!

So the views and opinions of the minority of anglers will dictate the outcome.

 

Now ask yourself why?

 

Because the EA can, and does, run roughshod over the majority of anglers, the majority CHOOSE to be unrepresented, so they cannot expect to be consulted individually, other than an on-line questionnaire, nor can their views be expected to be heard properly.

 

Now if any of you think this is unfair, wrong, whatever, what do you think you can do about it?

 

Individual, next to nothing is the honest answer, which is precisely what is happening, and has happened for as long as I can remember, I recall the way angling got shafted with the lead shot poisoning debacle in the 1980s, anglers never had proper representation and the rest is history.

 

 

The Angling Trust is angling's only chance of proper representation, and anglers must focus on the big picture, put aside their prejudices and get behind the concept by becoming a member, then once they are a shareholder or member, take the responsibility to shape it into a representitive organisation they can all be proud of, by choosing not to join, you only serve to strengthen the EA and weaken the Trust, and anything the EA choose to implement upon us without proper consultation, angling does have a voice in the shape of the fledgling Angling Trust, but it is a whisper because the membership uptake is so low, if you want it to roar , it becomes a numbers game, if you want a slick, combative and responsive organisation you will have to pay for it.

 

I am saying the majority of anglers are seen as irrelevant, because they choose to be irrelevant, that is not the fault of the Angling Trust, the fault lies squarely with anglers........... like it or not.

 

It is a leap of faith to believe in, and support the Angling Trust...........but what are the alternatives? if in 5 years or £100 of your hard earned money (5x £20) it is an abject failure, then we were duped and all hope is lost, kill the Trust at birth and we will never know.

[barry luxton]

AT got it wrong with 47. The EU won.

 

AT thought they got it right with the EA on the eel debarkle

 

AT thinks it going to get it right on the mcz's

 

All of the above do not sit right with me, so as far as i'm concerned i would be wasting my money, surly. Can't put it any plainer than that. Any one think of something positive that the AT might consider for the rsa, i can't think of anything personally.

Edited January 4, 2010 by barry luxton

[Dick Dastardly]

Bob I totally agree as an individual my wishes for angling will never be heard let alone considered by either the EA or the government.A body that truly represented all anglers would certainly have a much better chance and considering the amount of anglers in the UK could indeed be a force to be reckoned with.

 

Problem I have with the AT is that I honestly dont believe that (even if they are recognised by the powers to be) they will be putting forward the same things that I would want them to and more importantly dont seem to care what I want or what I think.They dont want my input or to do what I think is best.They simply want my money,my name (to increase there membership number and therefore representational power).

 

In a oner I simply dont have faith in the AT's views,opinions,aspirations or interest in me as an individual life time angler.

 

Yes same as in the 80's I will be duped again as an angler by the EA and the Government but at least I wont have parted with £20 to be duped by the AT as well!

 

BUT as I keep saying if they want me to join and my money then bring it on and come and talk to me and win my support and I would part with whatever money I had and above all give them my support. Just telling me what they want to do and what I must do is just not going to cut the ice all it does is alienate....well it has me and certainly appears to me most others as well.

 

We do care Bob but because we care we dont just blindly follow and join forces with a body that has all ready in many peoples opinion demonstrated that its thinking isn't on the same wave length.

[Bob Bradford]

Bob I totally agree as an individual my wishes for angling will never be heard let alone considered by either the EA or the government.A body that truly represented all anglers would certainly have a much better chance and considering the amount of anglers in the UK could indeed be a force to be reckoned with.

 

Problem I have with the AT is that I honestly dont believe that (even if they are recognised by the powers to be) they will be putting forward the same things that I would want them to and more importantly dont seem to care what I want or what I think.They dont want my input or to do what I think is best.They simply want my money,my name (to increase there membership number and therefore representational power).

 

In a oner I simply dont have faith in the AT's views,opinions,aspirations or interest in me as an individual life time angler.

 

Yes same as in the 80's I will be duped again as an angler by the EA and the Government but at least I wont have parted with £20 to be duped by the AT as well!

 

BUT as I keep saying if they want me to join and my money then bring it on and come and talk to me and win my support and I would part with whatever money I had and above all give them my support. Just telling me what they want to do and what I must do is just not going to cut the ice all it does is alienate....well it has me and certainly appears to me most others as well.

 

We do care Bob but because we care we dont just blindly follow and join forces with a body that has all ready in many peoples opinion demonstrated that its thinking isn't on the same wave length.

 

Fair enough Budgie, your choice mate, one thing you can be absolutly certain of though, you will never have a say, but sadly, by taking such a negative stance, you could influence the future of angling.............in a negative way,

 

Good luck mate ,and who knows? , we may meet on the bank one day.