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E.A. Powers Of Access?

Elton

By Elton
in Coarse Fishing

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Elton Member

Elton

Posted
Posted

Posted on behalf of Tim. Please add all replies to this thread:

 

As a complete novice, can you guys help me with the following query?

 

Last December I went fishing, for the first time in my life, with my partner's 18 year old son. It was an attempt to befriend him, as I'd recently moved in with her. He is a keen fisherman, but had not been since the age of 12, when his father last took him. He suggested a private fishery, on the outskirts of London, to which his father used to take him.

 

I asked him "Do we need a licence", and he told me "No, it's private". He'd been told this by his father, while still a child. While we were there, an Environment Agency (EA) bailiff turned up and we were charged, to my horror with not having a licence, even though it is a private location that you have to pay to use!

 

Putting aside my feelings about being effectively taxed (do the EA give any service to people at private fisheries?) to take part in a recreation on private property, do any of you know the law on the powers of the EA? The reason I ask this is that while we were being charged by the bailiff, the site owner came up and had a huge argument with him, because he'd come onto the site without prior notice or permission from the owner. I wander if it is legal for a bailiff to come onto private land to do this without permission? After all, even the police have to get a search warrant for a private property. How can a bailiff be empowered to act with authority that even the police don't have, and go onto private property without the permission? Does anyone have any information on the law about this? Or know of any source of information?

 

But I’ve also got a real gripe about the costs the EA are applying for: £127.47 from both of us. This is in addition to any fine that the magistrate will no doubt levy. I’ve called the EA and asked them to justify the charges and they’re stonewalling me; telling me that I need to apply under the Freedom of Information Act! In other words trying to prevent me from complaining. Does anyone have any information on how much is charged by the EA normally in these cases?

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Tigger Member

Tigger

Posted
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If the police don't follow the correct procedure then charges are usually dropped or thrown out of court (loop holes)...so if you have a solicitor then he may be able to get the charges dropped as the EA bailiff was trespassing as he didn't have permission to be on the land in the first place.

I'm no legal expert and i may well be totally wrong but that's what I've been led to belive, good luck!

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Dales Member

Dales

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I have not really looked in to whether EA bailiffs have the right to enter private land or not before doing so, but at a guess they may well be able to do. I am surprised that the fishery owner argued the point with them as most fishery owners accept that they will do checks amd I would have thought its not worth falling out with them. I dare say others on AN will be able to provide better information.

 

If I was you I would pay the fine as the EA have stepped up checking of licences and prosecuting those with out them. This season I have been stopped 6 times and asked for my licence, that's more then the rest of my life put together and I have read of big court fines and costs for those they bring to court. So it may be worth swallowing the bullet and paying up as the cost may escalate if they bring you to court.

Stephen

 

Species Caught 2014

Zander, Pike, Bream, Roach, Tench, Perch, Rudd, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Eel, Grayling, Brown Trout, Rainbow Trout

Species Caught 2013

Pike, Zander, Bream, Roach, Eel, Tench, Rudd, Perch, Common Carp, Koi Carp, Brown Goldfish, Grayling, Brown Trout, Chub, Roosterfish, Dorado, Black Grouper, Barracuda, Mangrove Snapper, Mutton Snapper, Jack Crevalle, Tarpon, Red Snapper

Species Caught 2012
Zander, Pike, Perch, Chub, Ruff, Gudgeon, Dace, Minnow, Wels Catfish, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Roach, Bream, Eel, Rudd, Tench, Arapaima, Mekong Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Marbled Tiger Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Thai Redtail Catfish, Batrachian Walking Catfish, Siamese Carp, Rohu, Julliens Golden Prize Carp, Giant Gourami, Java Barb, Red Tailed Tin Foil Barb, Nile Tilapia, Black Pacu, Red Bellied Pacu, Alligator Gar
Species Caught 2011
Zander, Tench, Bream, Chub, Barbel, Roach, Rudd, Grayling, Brown Trout, Salmon Parr, Minnow, Pike, Eel, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Koi Carp, Crucian Carp, F1 Carp, Blue Orfe, Ide, Goldfish, Brown Goldfish, Comet Goldfish, Golden Tench, Golden Rudd, Perch, Gudgeon, Ruff, Bleak, Dace, Sergeant Major, French Grunt, Yellow Tail Snapper, Tom Tate Grunt, Clown Wrasse, Slippery Dick Wrasse, Doctor Fish, Graysby, Dusky Squirrel Fish, Longspine Squirrel Fish, Stripped Croaker, Leather Jack, Emerald Parrot Fish, Red Tail Parrot Fish, White Grunt, Bone Fish
Species Caught 2010
Zander, Pike, Perch, Eel, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Mirror Carp, Common Carp, Crucian Carp, Siamese Carp, Asian Redtail Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Rohu, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Pacu, Long Tom, Moon Wrasse, Sergeant Major, Green Damsel, Tomtate Grunt, Sea Chub, Yellowtail Surgeon, Black Damsel, Blue Dot Grouper, Checkered Sea Perch, Java Rabbitfish, One Spot Snapper, Snubnose Rudderfish
Species Caught 2009
Barramundi, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Wallago Leeri Catfish, Wallago Attu Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Mrigul, Siamese Carp, Java Barb, Tarpon, Wahoo, Barracuda, Skipjack Tuna, Bonito, Yellow Eye Rockfish, Red Snapper, Mangrove Snapper, Black Fin Snapper, Dog Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Marble Grouper, Black Fin Tuna, Spanish Mackerel, Mutton Snapper, Redhind Grouper, Saddle Grouper, Schoolmaster, Coral Trout, Bar Jack, Pike, Zander, Perch, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Common Carp, Golden Tench, Wels Catfish
Species Caught 2008
Dorado, Wahoo, Barracuda, Bonito, Black Fin Tuna, Long Tom, Sergeant Major, Red Snapper, Black Damsel, Queen Trigga Fish, Red Grouper, Redhind Grouper, Rainbow Wrasse, Grey Trigger Fish, Ehrenbergs Snapper, Malabar Grouper, Lunar Fusiler, Two Tone Wrasse, Starry Dragonet, Convict Surgeonfish, Moonbeam Dwarf Angelfish,Bridled Monocle Bream, Redlined Triggerfish, Cero Mackeral, Rainbow Runner
Species Caught 2007
Arapaima, Alligator Gar, Mekong Catfish, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Pacu, Siamese Carp, Barracuda, Black Fin Tuna, Queen Trigger Fish, Red Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Honeycomb Grouper, Red Grouper, Schoolmaster, Cubera Snapper, Black Grouper, Albacore, Ballyhoo, Coney, Yellowfin Goatfish, Lattice Spinecheek

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Dales Member

Dales

Posted
Posted (edited)
If the police don't follow the correct procedure then charges are usually dropped or thrown out of court (loop holes)...so if you have a solicitor then he may be able to get the charges dropped as the EA bailiff was trespassing as he didn't have permission to be on the land in the first place.

I'm no legal expert and i may well be totally wrong but that's what I've been led to belive, good luck!

 

The problem with getting a solicitor to fight the case is that his fees may well cost more then the fine. Even the initial consultation can weigh in at a few hundred pounds before they even agree to take the case :o

Edited by Dales

Stephen

 

Species Caught 2014

Zander, Pike, Bream, Roach, Tench, Perch, Rudd, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Eel, Grayling, Brown Trout, Rainbow Trout

Species Caught 2013

Pike, Zander, Bream, Roach, Eel, Tench, Rudd, Perch, Common Carp, Koi Carp, Brown Goldfish, Grayling, Brown Trout, Chub, Roosterfish, Dorado, Black Grouper, Barracuda, Mangrove Snapper, Mutton Snapper, Jack Crevalle, Tarpon, Red Snapper

Species Caught 2012
Zander, Pike, Perch, Chub, Ruff, Gudgeon, Dace, Minnow, Wels Catfish, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Roach, Bream, Eel, Rudd, Tench, Arapaima, Mekong Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Marbled Tiger Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Thai Redtail Catfish, Batrachian Walking Catfish, Siamese Carp, Rohu, Julliens Golden Prize Carp, Giant Gourami, Java Barb, Red Tailed Tin Foil Barb, Nile Tilapia, Black Pacu, Red Bellied Pacu, Alligator Gar
Species Caught 2011
Zander, Tench, Bream, Chub, Barbel, Roach, Rudd, Grayling, Brown Trout, Salmon Parr, Minnow, Pike, Eel, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Koi Carp, Crucian Carp, F1 Carp, Blue Orfe, Ide, Goldfish, Brown Goldfish, Comet Goldfish, Golden Tench, Golden Rudd, Perch, Gudgeon, Ruff, Bleak, Dace, Sergeant Major, French Grunt, Yellow Tail Snapper, Tom Tate Grunt, Clown Wrasse, Slippery Dick Wrasse, Doctor Fish, Graysby, Dusky Squirrel Fish, Longspine Squirrel Fish, Stripped Croaker, Leather Jack, Emerald Parrot Fish, Red Tail Parrot Fish, White Grunt, Bone Fish
Species Caught 2010
Zander, Pike, Perch, Eel, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Mirror Carp, Common Carp, Crucian Carp, Siamese Carp, Asian Redtail Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Rohu, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Pacu, Long Tom, Moon Wrasse, Sergeant Major, Green Damsel, Tomtate Grunt, Sea Chub, Yellowtail Surgeon, Black Damsel, Blue Dot Grouper, Checkered Sea Perch, Java Rabbitfish, One Spot Snapper, Snubnose Rudderfish
Species Caught 2009
Barramundi, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Wallago Leeri Catfish, Wallago Attu Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Mrigul, Siamese Carp, Java Barb, Tarpon, Wahoo, Barracuda, Skipjack Tuna, Bonito, Yellow Eye Rockfish, Red Snapper, Mangrove Snapper, Black Fin Snapper, Dog Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Marble Grouper, Black Fin Tuna, Spanish Mackerel, Mutton Snapper, Redhind Grouper, Saddle Grouper, Schoolmaster, Coral Trout, Bar Jack, Pike, Zander, Perch, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Common Carp, Golden Tench, Wels Catfish
Species Caught 2008
Dorado, Wahoo, Barracuda, Bonito, Black Fin Tuna, Long Tom, Sergeant Major, Red Snapper, Black Damsel, Queen Trigga Fish, Red Grouper, Redhind Grouper, Rainbow Wrasse, Grey Trigger Fish, Ehrenbergs Snapper, Malabar Grouper, Lunar Fusiler, Two Tone Wrasse, Starry Dragonet, Convict Surgeonfish, Moonbeam Dwarf Angelfish,Bridled Monocle Bream, Redlined Triggerfish, Cero Mackeral, Rainbow Runner
Species Caught 2007
Arapaima, Alligator Gar, Mekong Catfish, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Pacu, Siamese Carp, Barracuda, Black Fin Tuna, Queen Trigger Fish, Red Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Honeycomb Grouper, Red Grouper, Schoolmaster, Cubera Snapper, Black Grouper, Albacore, Ballyhoo, Coney, Yellowfin Goatfish, Lattice Spinecheek

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Tigger Member

Tigger

Posted
Posted
The problem with getting a solicitor to fight the case is that his fees may well cost more then the fine. Even the initial consultation can weigh in at a few hundred pounds before they even agree to take the case :o

 

 

Yeah you may well be right but I think you get your first hour with a solicitor free. There's always the citizens advice centre.

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Kappa Member

Kappa

Posted
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Its quite a shame that this sort of thing happens, especially in this case it seems that it was a simple mistake. I guess the problem is that bailiff must get 'I didn't know I needed one' everyday of the week and how can they know if this is the first of 100th time someone has been out without a licence.

 

I agree with others though, depite the unfairness of it all etc its better and cheaper just to pay the fine and move on!

 

Rich

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Mark Wintle Member

Mark Wintle

Posted
Posted
Posted on behalf of Tim. Please add all replies to this thread:

 

You will find that the EA bailiff most certainly does have the power to go onto private land to check for licenses or the use of illegal instruments or other fishing offences such as fishing out of season.

 

Many years ago some private fisheries had general licenses covering all anglers on their water but I doubt if such a thing exists today.

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gozzer Member

gozzer

Posted
Posted

 

(Slightly off topic sorry), but I found this bit interesting,

 

 

A person holding a fishing licence for any area may, on production of his licence, require any person who is fishing in that area to produce his licence or other authority to fish and to state his name and address. [12] If any person required to produce his fishing licence or other authority or to state his name and address fails to do so, he shall be guilty of an offence; but if within seven days after the production of his licence was so required he produces the licence or other authority at the appropriate office of the Agency he shall not be convicted of an offence under this section for failing to produce it. [12]

 

It used to be printed on the license, and I thought it had been changed.

 

John.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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BigKev Member

BigKev

Posted
Posted (edited)
(Slightly off topic sorry), but I found this bit interesting,

 

 

 

 

It used to be printed on the license, and I thought it had been changed.

 

John.

 

 

 

Police Act 1964 · Police (Scotland) Act 1967 · Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 · Police Act 1996 · Police Reform Act 2002 · Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 ·

Law · Courts · Prisons

 

old info i'm afraid only EA bailliffs or plod can ask to see your licence now , you dont even have to show it to a club bailliff if you dont want to

Edited by BigKev
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