If all the Carp went away what would replace them?

[Worms]

I can completely understand why people would want to fish there.

 

But fishing choices have never been so restricted. This probably affects me more because I am obviously in the minority. I suppose in the future this minority will be so tiny that it becomes invisible, and then everyone will be happy. The tiny minority can club together to secure syndicates and go about their oddball ways in peace.

 

On stocking levels, catching any fish (except for food) that has to eat anglers' bait to survive is morally and ethically wrong in my opinion, and when that happens we lose any claim to be conservationists, or guardians of the waterways, and in fact we are being actively destructive towards nature. Putting the fish on an unhooking mat and using a bit of plastic that allows the lead to fall off the line is a useful distraction and nod towards 'fish welfare' but is actually just sleight of hand.

 

Yes, it is up to all of us to decide how we want to go about our fishing, but I expect given the choice a lot of footballers would double the size of the opposition's goal if they were allowed. That would pretty unsporting though, so it is a fundamental rule of the game.

 

So far in my lifetime we have abolished the closed season on stillwaters, as we don't have enough respect for fish to give them a break from us trying to catch them, attempted to abolish the right to take fish to eat, and allowed lake owners to treat fish as nothing more than pounds and pence, and stock them at such high levels that they are the finned equivalents of battery hens, and would, if we could, shoot dead any animal that eats fish in case it makes it harder for us to catch a fish and let it go again. But we MUST treat their wounds with klinik and take off out rings and watches before holding them for a photo.

 

I know I am in the minority but I just hate the modern attitude towards it all. Why are we not allowed to blank any more? In an age where we are supposed to be enlightened with regard to safe rigs and fish care, why don't we care about the actual day to day lives of the fish we profess to love and respect?

 

I look forward to your comments

[Rusty]

So far in my lifetime we have abolished the closed season on stillwaters, as we don't have enough respect for fish to give them a break from us trying to catch them.......I look forward to your comments

 

Do you fish in the close season Andrew?

[poledark]

Yes he does and makes no bones about fishing for the Tench which will "be putting on weight" in May. And he does it at one of the so called "well managed, well stocked, idyllic" lakes, along with a lot of other anglers, who post on here.

 

Something I think many of you fail to grasp is the almost obsessional hold that carp fishing can exert on an angler. They get divorced over it, get the sack for taking time off work, miss out on other work if self employed...they just can't help themselves. It must be the buzz (and I still get it) of a big fish.

A young apprentice turned up at "my" lake at 9pm last evening.He has no car and walks a mile and a half to the lake. His barrow was punctured, so he arrived with just his rods' pod and sleeping bag and a few bits a pieces...........................and he had to be at work at 07.30 the next morning.

 

Try telling him he is "missing out"

 

Den

[Anderoo]

Do you fish in the close season Andrew?

 

Yes Rusty, I fish a couple of times for tench at Wingham and also go fly fishing. The Wingham fish are under so little angling pressure that I don't feel bad about it any more, and also after assurances from Steve that it did no measurable harm following experiments with voluntary closed seasons in the past. I think you're clutching at straws a bit to be honest, and Den is just intentionally misunderstanding everything I say and taking it all personally, and using irrelevant examples. (I know people who are equally obsessive about tench, bream, chub, perch, pike...pretty much every species. Carp are far from unique in that respect, it's just that those who fish for them are in the majority.)

 

If I didn't fish at Wingham I wouldn't coarse fish in the closed season, and if that sounds stupid and hypocritical then you still don't get my point at all. Also, if Wingham was hammered like some other lakes I also wouldn't fish there in the closed season either. And if there was a chance to get the old closed season back on ALL waters then I would welcome it.

 

Anyway, I didn't want to bring Wingham into this because I know what'll happen.

 

Ah well.

[Rusty]

I think you're clutching at straws a bit to be honest,

 

For what purpose? I don't have an agenda.

 

Despite your wish not to comes across in a way that demeans the commercial carp angler that's how I believe your views are being interpreted by some, it's as simple as that. If you don't mean that then fine but I think you have to accept that others have formed an opinion on the basis of what they've read so far.

 

If your views aren't being communicated or received in the way that you'd want them it's best to acknowledge that a typing media isn't always the most suitable way to convey a message and leave it at that. Responding and trying to clarify your position isn't helping, it'd be wiser to let those who've got the wrong end of the stick keep it.

[Anderoo]

OK, fair enough, although I am really surprised that the majority here seem to think it's all fine to stock carp at extremely high levels and that over time this won't have a negative impact on both the environment and angling as a whole.

 

I'm genuinely not looking down on people, which is how I'm being taken. Maybe I'd have more luck over a couple of pints in the pub

[Rusty]

Maybe I'd have more luck over a couple of pints in the pub

 

Always the best communication environment (unless investment is on the agenda)

[Dales]

OK, fair enough, although I am really surprised that the majority here seem to think it's all fine to stock carp at extremely high levels and that over time this won't have a negative impact on both the environment and angling as a whole.

 

I'm genuinely not looking down on people, which is how I'm being taken. Maybe I'd have more luck over a couple of pints in the pub

 

This thread has ambled over a few areas and may have got a bit mixed up with us defending one point or another and it being miss-read and interpreted as defending another.

 

I doubt many on here think it is ok to stock Carp or any other species at extremely high levels and can see that in the long run it must all end in tears and so on these points I agree with you and John. (But I find it hard to knock them, due to the fact I do fish them for my own selfish reasons while trying to catch "exotics" for want of a better way to describe the species I fish for at commercials)

 

The one point that I do not agree with is simply the idea that those who choose to fish these waters are some how missing out, the fact that they do it suggests that they get something from it.

 

We don't all have to agree on what the right or wrong way to fish is and we don't We all take our own enjoyment out of fishing and like different forms of it, you pay your money and make your choice.

 

The only thing I do not like about AN is the intentional or in unintentional snobbery that some times rears its head in many threads that one style of fishing is more valid or worthy then another. (I am not aiming this at you Andrew, just because I quoted you above)

 

If I can remember, I am sure I started this post by asking what fish could replace Carp if they were no longer around

[gozzer]

Oddly I agree with you John and Anderoo on most of these issues. I prefer to fish more natural lakes with a normal stock ratio, but I don't mind admitting I do fish commercials and the reason I do it is to catch ornamental and non native species. If they did not stock Golden Tench, Fantails, Catfish etc I would not fish them. I know the stocking of non-natives is not popular, but I like them. Ideally in my mind, these are the sort of fish that should be stocked in "commercials" at low density and not our native species that should be in a more natural environment.

 

Does that make me a hypocrite for thinking I care about fish, well yes it probably does. As to try to catch the one of the handful of golden Tench in a water, I have to go to a lake packed with tonnes of fish to keep the match boys happy. But I am not so much of a hypocrite as to have a go at some else just because they enjoy fishing these places all the time catching Carp, Roach, Bream what ever.

 

Anderoo compaired the fish in these places to battery hens and he is right, but does the fact that battery hen farms exist stop people buying the eggs they produce even after endless campaigns telling people about how bad they are, no it does not. Commercials are what they are, it's a business and they are there to make money and provide a product that enough people seem willing to buy. It may not be fishing by many anglers standards, but enough people seem to want the product.

 

They are commercial enterprises and like any other commercial rearing of livestock it will involve an element of overcrowding and yes cruelty.

Morning Stephen, If I'm understanding your post correctly (apologises if I'm not), then you have no objection to any species being introduced, as long as enough people want to catch them, and/or they are part of a commercial enterprise, (regardless of the impact on native species). Well, if that's right, then sorry but it does make you one of the "self serving hypocrites" that I referred to.

Not matter how hard anyone tries, guaranteed isolation of any creature is impossible, and they will impact on indigenous species, and the ecological balance of an area generally. There are numerous creatures and plants that have 'escaped' from 'secure' captivity that are threatening our native flora and fauna. All these were introduced because someone wanted to look at them, fish or hunt them, or because they thought money could be made from them. To support such introductions by definition means support for all the others, such as motherless minnow, mink, topmouth gudgeon, signal crayfish etc. To support some introductions and not others, depending on how popular, or profitable they are, is (surely you must agree) the height of selfishness, and hypocritical to boot.

 

As for the inference that my criticising those who frequent the waters exclusively, makes me a hypocrite, then I have to admit that I included that as much for effect than anything else. But having said that, my football analogy does ring true. These places are created/designed purely to provide customers with a 'catching experience' almost guaranteed. That may well be what some want, but it can be likened to someone who thinks that football is just about goals. So you could say that widening the goalmouth, doing away with goalkeepers etc would increase the number of goals, and enhance the enjoyment of some, but would it still be football?

 

I think in future I will refer to these waters as 'catching pools', and those that use then as merely 'fishcatchers'. Would that be OK?

 

John.

 

Edit,

I wrote this reply earlier but got called away from the PC, but it still seems to be relevant so I'll leave it.

Edited July 8, 2010 by gozzer

[Anderoo]

Yes, I agree with all that Dales, and with Rusty's posts too. That's what makes this so frustrating for me!

 

It's a good discussion, I am enjoying it even though I apparently sound like a pompous arse

 

All your points I have tried to addresss in previous posts so won't repeat myself. The only one I will pick up on is that word 'choice' again, because that's really the key to it. As I said before, I don't look down on anyone and I don't hold any one species or style higher than any other. If anyone thinks I do, in the context of this topic there's an amazing irony going on! When I chat to young anglers who are carp fishing (e.g. at local club lakes) they unashamedly look down on me and judge their fishing to be more worthy than mine.