What lb line for float fishing for perch with lobworms

[Steve Walker]

Should I be using barbed or barbless hooks when using lob worms as bait for perch?

 

Steve Burke says barbed is safer for perch in large sizes, and since I mostly fish for perch with lobs I'm unlikely to use anything smaller than a #10 and more likely a #6 or #8, so it's barbed for me.

[Anderoo]

I'm now going to disagree with most of what's been written so far

 

Line strength should be dictated by what rod you're using. There's no point using 6lb line with a light trotting rod, or 3lb with an Avon. So what rod do you have in mind TT?

 

I do agree with Arbocop about hooklengths though. It seems silly not to use one, because you will get snagged at some point, plus the swivel really does reduce line twist. Strength of hooklength will be determined by what mainline you use, how pressured the perch are, and how snaggy the river is.

 

In my experience, big hooks do not put off big perch. For lobs I use a size 6 wide gape, in a light wire pattern. Smaller hooks will just mean masked hook points and missed bites; there's no point in using a big bait with a small hook. Always use barbed - the worm will stay on better (I usually tip it with a red maggot too) and as perch expert Steve Burke has told us on many occasions, barbless hooks can kill perch because they penetrate deeply and pierce vital organs near the throat.

 

Differentiating between good perch and chub swims is hard without knowing more about the river - what's it like? Where the perch will be will depend on lots of things. Following the small silver fish around won't help if the perch mainly eat crays, for example. However, general things to look for are cover/snags/structures, deeper than average water (even by a little), a hard bottom, slower than average current. But it will depend an awful lot on the specifics of your river.

 

When you fish is just as important as where you fish. On some waters you can pick up big perch all day; others have a very small feeding spell around dawn and/or dusk. Working this out will help no end for future trips. One place I fish for perch, I spend longer driving to than actually fishing, it's over that quickly!

 

For what it's worth, my usual big perch set-up is a 12ft 1.25lb tc avon rod, 6lb mainline, 6lb double strength hooklength (joined by a small swivel), size 6 wide gape barbed hook, top-and-bottom float taking plenty of shot. The shot can be moved around so that you can trot or present the bait hard on the bottom without the flow pulling it around. Most of my big perch have come to static lobs.

 

PS I have also noticed that where the perch feed mainly on crays, the fishing can be very patchy. I am sure they don't feed every day, but nobble a big cray or two in a short feeding spell, then sit and digest for a couple of days. Sometimes you can be sitting there fishing well in absolutely perfect conditions, and nothing will happen. Where they eat mainly fish, the fishing is usually more consistent.

[Steve Walker]

For what it's worth, my usual big perch set-up is a 12ft 1.25lb tc avon rod, 6lb mainline, 6lb double strength hooklength (joined by a small swivel), size 6 wide gape barbed hook, top-and-bottom float taking plenty of shot.

 

^^^ This is exactly what I use, too.

[Steve Burke]

For much of my own river perching I use 4.4lb Pro Gold. This line is conservatively rated and breaks at a higher figure than this. I do however use lighter hooklengths in many situations. Pro Gold is a sinking line, but I may be using it for trotting or ledgering in the same session as much of my river perching is a roving game and different swims need different methods. Pro Gold is also supple but has excellent abrasion resistance for snaggy swims.

 

As Anderoo knows I use fine wire, short shank, wide gape hooks for my perching. This means that they're very lightweight for their size, and so with lobs I can get away with a size 6 to minimise missed bites without adversely affecting presentation. As has been pointed out lobs can mask the point of a small hook.

 

In my experience barbless hooks in anything other than small sizes are dangerous to perch. For more on this see post 22 at http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/Carp-di...04#entry3294204 .

 

The hooks I use have minute barbs. They're are no longer available, but I bought a lifetime's supply. Very similar patterns can be found on European web sites where they're often described as zander hooks.

 

Turning to the difference between perch and chub swims, this will soon become apparent with experience. However perch in general like slower swims to chub (but still as Chris says with a hard bottom), and they also prefer low light. This means that they're often in deeper water than chub during brighter conditions, or tucked under tree roots.

 

It's also worth bearing in mind that on many rivers, unlike chub, the perch move a fair distance from day to day. So if you don't catch in one swim the odds favour moving on to another.

 

Edit note: I ought to add that some days the perch will want a whole lob, others half a lob, others a dendra or two. Try trotting at different depths to find the right combination of current and light intensity - big perch are often very close to cover such as bullrushes. These are often confused with other plants but the true bulrush grows only on a firm bottom. Also bear in mind that laying-on and strettpegging can often be even better than trotting.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Steve Burke

[Bigfishy]

I'm now going to disagree with most of what's been written so far

 

Line strength should be dictated by what rod you're using. There's no point using 6lb line with a light trotting rod, or 3lb with an Avon. So what rod do you have in mind TT?[/b]I do agree with Arbocop about hooklengths though. It seems silly not to use one, because you will get snagged at some point, plus the swivel really does reduce line twist. Strength of hooklength will be determined by what mainline you use, how pressured the perch are, and how snaggy the river is.

 

In my experience, big hooks do not put off big perch. For lobs I use a size 6 wide gape, in a light wire pattern. Smaller hooks will just mean masked hook points and missed bites; there's no point in using a big bait with a small hook. Always use barbed - the worm will stay on better (I usually tip it with a red maggot too) and as perch expert Steve Burke has told us on many occasions, barbless hooks can kill perch because they penetrate deeply and pierce vital organs near the throat.

 

Differentiating between good perch and chub swims is hard without knowing more about the river - what's it like? Where the perch will be will depend on lots of things. Following the small silver fish around won't help if the perch mainly eat crays, for example. However, general things to look for are cover/snags/structures, deeper than average water (even by a little), a hard bottom, slower than average current. But it will depend an awful lot on the specifics of your river.

 

When you fish is just as important as where you fish. On some waters you can pick up big perch all day; others have a very small feeding spell around dawn and/or dusk. Working this out will help no end for future trips. One place I fish for perch, I spend longer driving to than actually fishing, it's over that quickly!

 

For what it's worth, my usual big perch set-up is a 12ft 1.25lb tc avon rod, 6lb mainline, 6lb double strength hooklength (joined by a small swivel), size 6 wide gape barbed hook, top-and-bottom float taking plenty of shot. The shot can be moved around so that you can trot or present the bait hard on the bottom without the flow pulling it around. Most of my big perch have come to static lobs.

 

PS I have also noticed that where the perch feed mainly on crays, the fishing can be very patchy. I am sure they don't feed every day, but nobble a big cray or two in a short feeding spell, then sit and digest for a couple of days. Sometimes you can be sitting there fishing well in absolutely perfect conditions, and nothing will happen. Where they eat mainly fish, the fishing is usually more consistent.

 

 

Beat me to it

[Anderoo]

It's also worth bearing in mind that on many rivers, unlike chub, the perch move a fair distance from day to day.

 

Why do you think this is Steve? I assume you mean because of natural behaviour rather than being pushed out by angling pressure?

[Steve Burke]

Why do you think this is Steve? I assume you mean because of natural behaviour rather than being pushed out by angling pressure?

 

Yes, it happens even on rivers that hardly ever see an angler. I suspect it has something to do with food availabilty, possibly because they prefer slower swims to chub and thus have less food brought to them on the current, possibly because of their preference for feeding in low light. I don't really know for sure, it's just something I've noticed on many of the rivers I've fished for big perch. It's not that they feed anywhere. They still have their preferred swims, so I tend to leapfrog from one to another until I find them.

 

On the other hand most chub are stay-at-homes and seldom move far on my rivers. That said, there are some wanderers and moreover these are often the biggest ones!

[Steve Burke]

Anderoo, you mentioned matching line strength to rod. I'd certainly go along with that. However I start the other way round. I select the line according to what I need for the swims I'll be fishing and the baits and methods I'll be using. Then I choose the rod.

 

Of course not everyone will have the luxury of several rods to choose from. I certainly didn't in days gone by. However because I do a lot of perching I've made sure that one of my rods is perfect for the job.

[Anderoo]

Yes, it happens even on rivers that hardly ever see an angler. I suspect it has something to do with food availabilty, possibly because they prefer slower swims to chub and thus have less food brought to them on the current, possibly because of their preference for feeding in low light. I don't really know for sure, it's just something I've noticed on many of the rivers I've fished for big perch. It's not that they feed anywhere. They still have their preferred swims, so I tend to leapfrog from one to another until I find them.

 

On the other hand most chub are stay-at-homes and seldom move far on my rivers. That said, there are some wanderers and moreover these are often the biggest ones!

 

I wonder if this is more usual behaviour on rivers where the perch mainly eat fish, which do move about a lot, rather than crays, which dont?

 

On one little stream I fish, I am sure the perch eat mainly crays these days (maybe fish on a Friday ). I have seen the boils and turbulance from hunting perch deep under tree roots, trying to get the crays out. Plus the crays are often much less of a nuisance before catching a perch, as they soon scarper when a big perch turns up. On this stream I often blank and usually put this down to the perch simply not feeding that day, as they never have to go far to find food. But maybe I'm wrong and they're just not in the swim?

[Steve Burke]

I've only fished one river that contained crays so am not qualified to comment on them. However on my local rivers the perch feed on both fish and insects, so I don't think it's just following fish shoals. I suspect it's a question of getting the maximum food for the amount of energy required.

 

I definitely think it's worth moving if you don't catch fairly soon and have tried a few bait/depth combinations. As I mentioned earlier it's a matter of playing the percentages - something that US boat anglers like Newt will confirm. You may catch if you stay put, but you're probably more likely to do so if you move.