Mullet Seined netted in Cornwall

[Bob Shotter]

Sorry, Bob, but you've just responded with more of the same. Only this time you threw in a large chunk of assumption, too. And what have spurdog got to do with mullet?

 

All I'm saying is, if you don't know what the facts are, don't quote all the rubbish you've heard or read as fact. Someone, somewhere, will ways be in possession of the facts and will blow your rumour, hearsay and myth out of the water. Usually in front of an audience, which will make you look very silly and discredit the anglers you want to represent.

 

Ok Steve then perhaps you could save me some embarrassment and provide some facts that would show how and where I’m wrong which is what I have asked for.

 

I want to represent RSA fairly and to do that I need views from across the board not just my own, more importantly those views need to be backed up with factual evidence.

 

You mention assumption as part of my previous post, quite so but have you seen the pictures on the WSF thread, same subject and a pile of mullet on the quay, not boxed now that is not the norm is it?

Memories of those Spurdog spring to mind and that was not a case of assumption, myth or anything other than fact.

 

Tight Lines Bob

[Steve Coppolo]

I find it hard to believe that anyone can disagree with that statement.

 

Surely the commercial net fishermen outfish the recreational tonnage of any specie over any period, a week, a month, a year.

I can't think of any specie that could be caught in greater numbers on rod and line , than in a net.

 

Net fishing is also inclusive, in that it produces bycatch and undersized fish, at least the RSA would release such fish that would have some chance of surviving.

 

Not having a pop, Cranfield, but is that based on what you've experienced, or what you've read, heard or imagined?

 

Quite often, depending on conditions, gill nets will be out fished by long lines and, occasionally, rod and line. Gill nets can be incredibly selective and the amount of undersized fish caught is minimal. A lot of fish caught in nets come to the boat alive and kicking and those that are released swim away. Mullet can be notoriously hard to catch in nets. Their torpedo shape and strength, plus their wariness, make them difficult to catch. ( bass, on the other hand, are perfectly designed to be caught In Gill nets). Shoals of mullet will often jump over ring nets to escape.

 

Bob was saying that nets will ALWAYS out fish line fishing, which simply isn't true.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Steve Coppolo

[Bob Shotter]

Bob was saying that nets will ALWAYS out fish line fishing, which simply isn't true.

 

Point taken all be it a bit of a weak one

Edited December 27, 2010 by Deene'0

[Cranfield]

Not having a pop, Cranfield, but is that based on what you've experienced, or what you've read, heard or imagined?

 

Probably all of those things, plus watching a few Trawlermen episodes.

 

I doubt there are any statistics that could prove either side of the discussion, but there are just things that don't sound right.

 

Eight blokes in a charter boat fishing 6-8 hours just couldn't catch as much as a trawler fishing for the same amount of time.

If you then include the general poor quality of beach fishing in the UK (which the majority of the RSA are involved in) keeping catches even lower, the beachfishing RSA surely can't keep up with the inshore netters.

[Steve Coppolo]

Point taken all be it a bit of a weak one

 

It doesn't matter how weak it is, Bob, when you find yourself up against those who do know the facts, they will exploit any inaccuracies and make you look very silly indeed. Getting caught out romancing once, discredits everything you say - even the things you may get right.

[Steve Coppolo]

Probably all of those things, plus watching a few Trawlermen episodes.

 

I doubt there are any statistics that could prove either side of the discussion, but there are just things that don't sound right.

 

Eight blokes in a charter boat fishing 6-8 hours just couldn't catch as much as a trawler fishing for the same amount of time.

If you then include the general poor quality of beach fishing in the UK (which the majority of the RSA are involved in) keeping catches even lower, the beachfishing RSA surely can't keep up with the inshore netters.

 

I'm not arguing just for the sake of it, but that still contains a lot of assumption.

 

It is more than reasonable to assume a trawler would always catch far more fish than a charter boat, but it isn't always the case. It depends on the conditions, the species and size of fish that are there, horsepower of the trawler, and any number of other variations.

 

Maybe inshore netting does account for more fish than beach angling, but does beach netting? I doubt it. And does inshore netting account for more fish than inshore boat angling? Again, I doubt it.

 

We've got to be very careful with these assumptions. Because of the wild and weird figures that are often quoted by sea angling misrepresentatives, it has become a game of numbers. (I see the latest figure from the Angling Trust is 6.4 million sea anglers in England and Wales!!). It would take a lot of under 10m commercial boats to compete with actual anglers when it comes to fish numbers. The exaggerated claims just give them more ammunition to fire back at anyone who goes armed with nothing more than assumption and personal perception based on myth, hearsay and imagination.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Steve Coppolo

[Bob Shotter]

It doesn't matter how weak it is, Bob, when you find yourself up against those who do know the facts, they will exploit any inaccuracies and make you look very silly indeed. Getting caught out romancing once, discredits everything you say - even the things you may get right.

 

 

Now that is a very fair comment and I thank you Steve. Will mind how I word things from here on in.

[Cranfield]

I'm not arguing just for the sake of it, but that still contains a lot of assumption.

 

It is more than reasonable to assume a trawler would always catch far more fish than a charter boat, but it isn't always the case. It depends on the conditions, the species and size of fish that are there, horsepower of the trawler, and any number of other variations.

 

Maybe inshore netting does account for more fish than beach angling, but does beach netting? I doubt it. And does inshore netting account for more fish than inshore boat angling? Again, I doubt it.

 

We've got to be very careful with these assumptions. Because of the wild and weird figures that are often quoted by sea angling misrepresentatives, it has become a game of numbers. (I see the latest figure from the Angling Trust is 6.4 million sea anglers in England and Wales!!). It would take a lot of under 10m commercial boats to compete with actual anglers when it comes to fish numbers. The exaggerated claims just give them more ammunition to fire back at anyone who goes armed with nothing more than assumption and personal perception based on myth, hearsay and imagination.

 

I also don't want to chew this bone just for the sake of it, but "assumptions", in the absence of hard facts, is all you have.

 

There are no hard facts of the amount of fish caught by commercials, because catch returns don't include discards and many netters come under the radar for catch returns.

Apart from reading catch reports on Internet Forums, there are no hard facts on the catches by RSA.

 

However, I believe that on the balance of probability, a net will catch more than a rod and line (standard 2 hook rig) , in the same place, over the same period, in the same conditions.

 

I would also speculate that a ban on netting would have a greater affect on increasing fish stocks than a ban on conventional road and line fishing would.

 

So I still believe that any form of commercial net fishing takes more fish than the RSA with rod and line.

On which point I am happy to agree to disagree with you.

[Steve Coppolo]

So I still believe that any form of commercial net fishing takes more fish than the RSA with rod and line.

On which point I am happy to agree to disagree with you.

 

Fair enough. You're not claiming to represent me, or doing anything that might mess with my fishing, so I'm more than happy to accept your views as your own.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Steve Coppolo

[Brian Carragher]

"There are no hard facts of the amount of fish caught by commercials, because catch returns don't include discards and many netters come under the radar for catch returns.

Apart from reading catch reports on Internet Forums, there are no hard facts on the catches by RSA."

 

Well actually there are and Defra use them to calculate the next take of species based on Cecas studies of stock

 

They use a system of recorded landings and an allowance for discard and then so I'm led to believe, factor in a sum to allow for unrecorded landings

 

As for netters coming in under the radar for catch returns also not quite right as all licenced boats have to fill in their catch returns irrespective of how big the fishing vessel is so that an overall picture can be obtained, the only time catch returns are not required to be submitted is when licenced fishing vessels are fishing for non quota species

 

Anyway back to this mullet thing

 

I read the thread on WSF as mentioned by Deen'o

 

"You mention assumption as part of my previous post, quite so but have you seen the pictures on the WSF thread, same subject and a pile of mullet on the quay, not boxed now that is not the norm is it?"

 

I have to say that the response to the original poster on there was pretty much the same as on here, I could'nt see any photos of unboxed fish as I'm not logged in or a member but the response to the OP was pretty critical

 

The amounts claimed in there were less thn a third of the figures given here, 4 tons and there was some link to a blog site of March 2010 and I'm guessing that the poster in this topic and in WSF is the same person given some of the same language and rethoric who has a stated aim of bring down any and all commercial fishing in the UK aand really thats what I think the top and bottom of this topic is, a not very subtle loaded topic with an ulteria aim