Hugh's Fish Fight

[Bob Shotter]

I have never commented on the SFF before, because I do not sea fish, but this is politics and my view as an outsider is.

 

Why are quota,s not weight related and why do they have to be species oriented, does not this created waste and discards.

 

Yes I realise what the answer is MONEY IE I will fish for the most profitable, but then surely does not the better skipper/fisherman prevail if weight is the target and not, what the hell keep fishing and if I don,t like the catch chuck it overboard until i fill up with money?

 

A very warm welcome to the C+P section Medwaygreen you have at least picked one of the more moderate C+P forums as most on here are a very friendly bunch even when our views are deeply divided.

 

As for the topic, there have been many ideas put forward to address what most agree is the biggest failing, that of the CFP (Common Fishery Policy). The sad fact is that change will be slow in coming as this is an EU (European Union) issue where the paper shuffling seems to take forever and not unlike your comment has a lot to do with money.

 

As for the idea of control by weight which for the above reason is a non starter. I think it is important to realise that fishing is driven by the market demand which far exceeds what the factory (The Sea) can produce. It is also dominated by and large by the species that consumer prefers.

 

The sad wastage that goes on by the disgusting discards we are told are driven by a combination of both, what has not been shown is how others have overcome the situation like EU non member Norway where no discards are permitted.

 

Nor has any one mentioned the viability of relying more, or better still less, in selective fishing. You see they have not told you for example about the practice of ‘High Grading’ that is when a boat might well have a full load of lower value Cod then finds some of better quality worth quite a bit more at market, result over the rails with the less valuable fish to be replaced with the better fish, no concern for the stock here.

 

I also believe though I could be wrong, that a skipper can select to fish for a particular species and fish an area where only that species are likely to be taken. Where as if he was restricted to fishing at all times in a mixed fishery, then the quota levels might be reached more evenly thus reducing the need to discard.

 

Frankly the best move would be to outlaw discards with an increase to the quota or opt for days at sea, but then I'm just a recreational angler.

 

PS Thanks to Wurzel and Cleeclive for your response your comments duly noted.

 

 

Tight Lines Bob

Edited January 13, 2011 by Deene'0

[glennk]

Good programme but did anyone else think the comments made re wasted bycatch by the fishermen, especially the trawlermen, were all expressing regret at all that lost income?

 

Not a lot of concern expressed for the impact on the stock levels.

 

 

Spot on Jim, and what concerns me is that regardless of what system is put in place, a greedy man will seek to find loopholes to make the system work for them and not for the fish. Im sure that when the Quota system was introduced, no one ever thought you would see dead fish being thrown out of a boats hold to be replaced by more valuable larger fish. There is no accounting for the greed of man and the only system that can ever work is one that favours fish not man. With the bargaining power of the NFFO its highly unlikely that any system will ever favour anything other than over 10 meter trawlers.

 

Read somewhere in amongst this topic a comment from wurzel about days at sea working out only if they are given enough days to make it viable. Proof in itself that a commercial fisherman thinks of nothing more than commercial gain.

[Steve Coppolo]

Read somewhere in amongst this topic a comment from wurzel about days at sea working out only if they are given enough days to make it viable. Proof in itself that a commercial fisherman thinks of nothing more than commercial gain.

 

It's their job, Glenn! That's what they do to earn money.

[glennk]

Fully aware of that Steve. But history tells us that they will do anything in their power to be able to make money even at the expense of fish stocks. The only system that can ever work is one that truelly favours fish and not men with nets.

 

Youve been a member of this forum a long time Steve. No doubt you will remember a member called Binatone, who then morphed into a member called Challenge. Can you recall how many times he swore blind on this forum that in all of his years of commercial fishing he had never seen an illegal practice, he had never seen a blinder and he had never seen any discards. Now all of a sudden Discards are a massive problem and every boat is doing it. Why did he put so much time into deny the existence on discards when we all knew they were rife ?

 

Commercial fishermen aren't suddenly screaming about discards because they are concerned about fish, they're screaming about it because the quota system is now properly enforced and they want to land the discards (Just like they often used to illegally). If the quota system remained un-enforced there isnt a chance in hell that Hugh would have got his camera onboard any of those boats. This business of discards isnt a recent problem, its been going on for 20 years, alongside black fish, high grading and other illegal practices. I may be very cynical but the Agenda here is far bigger than the one that first meets the eye.

 

Hughs agenda is a good one and discards must be dealt with, but I wouldn't trust some of the others who have a hand in this, as far as I could throw them.

[SandTiger]

Fully aware of that Steve. But history tells us that they will do anything in their power to be able to make money even at the expense of fish stocks. The only system that can ever work is one that truelly favours fish and not men with nets.

 

Youve been a member of this forum a long time Steve. No doubt you will remember a member called Binatone, who then morphed into a member called Challenge. Can you recall how many times he swore blind on this forum that in all of his years of commercial fishing he had never seen an illegal practice, he had never seen a blinder and he had never seen any discards. Now all of a sudden Discards are a massive problem and every boat is doing it. Why did he put so much time into deny the existence on discards when we all knew they were rife ?

 

Commercial fishermen aren't suddenly screaming about discards because they are concerned about fish, they're screaming about it because the quota system is now properly enforced and they want to land the discards (Just like they often used to illegally). If the quota system remained un-enforced there isnt a chance in hell that Hugh would have got his camera onboard any of those boats. This business of discards isnt a recent problem, its been going on for 20 years, alongside black fish, high grading and other illegal practices. I may be very cynical but the Agenda here is far bigger than the one that first meets the eye.

 

Hughs agenda is a good one and discards must be dealt with, but I wouldn't trust some of the others who have a hand in this, as far as I could throw them.

 

 

I'm not sure that using one person that you chatted to on an internet forum goes a hell of a long way in advancing your case, but there we go. What are your views on the current trial in Scotland or do you have any workable alternative solutions?

[wurzel]

Fully aware of that Steve. But history tells us that they will do anything in their power to be able to make money even at the expense of fish stocks. The only system that can ever work is one that truelly favours fish and not men with nets.

 

Youve been a member of this forum a long time Steve. No doubt you will remember a member called Binatone, who then morphed into a member called Challenge. Can you recall how many times he swore blind on this forum that in all of his years of commercial fishing he had never seen an illegal practice, he had never seen a blinder and he had never seen any discards. Now all of a sudden Discards are a massive problem and every boat is doing it. Why did he put so much time into deny the existence on discards when we all knew they were rife ?

 

Commercial fishermen aren't suddenly screaming about discards because they are concerned about fish, they're screaming about it because the quota system is now properly enforced and they want to land the discards (Just like they often used to illegally). If the quota system remained un-enforced there isnt a chance in hell that Hugh would have got his camera onboard any of those boats. This business of discards isnt a recent problem, its been going on for 20 years, alongside black fish, high grading and other illegal practices. I may be very cynical but the Agenda here is far bigger than the one that first meets the eye.

 

Hughs agenda is a good one and discards must be dealt with, but I wouldn't trust some of the others who have a hand in this, as far as I could throw them.

 

Still the same old Glenn.

There is no such thing as a greedy fisherman, only a successful fishermen.

 

The discard of undersized fish and the discard of large market size fish are two very different issues.

 

Challenge was referring to undersized fish as discards and as was seen in the programme there were very few undersized fish being caught, I think challenge had finished on the trawlers by the time quotas had started to be lowered to a point of ridicules small amounts, you are right, the present discard problem has been caused by the clamping down on black fish.

 

Here's some thing for you and others to ponder on.

If all the trawlers in the North Sea had landed all the fish they had caught in the last 10 years would it have made a difference to the very good cod fishing that Big Cod has had recently and regularly reminds us of on AN. If so, how?

[cleeclive]

Spot on Jim, and what concerns me is that regardless of what system is put in place, a greedy man will seek to find loopholes to make the system work for them and not for the fish. Im sure that when the Quota system was introduced, no one ever thought you would see dead fish being thrown out of a boats hold to be replaced by more valuable larger fish. There is no accounting for the greed of man and the only system that can ever work is one that favours fish not man. With the bargaining power of the NFFO its highly unlikely that any system will ever favour anything other than over 10 meter trawlers.

 

Read somewhere in amongst this topic a comment from wurzel about days at sea working out only if they are given enough days to make it viable. Proof in itself that a commercial fisherman thinks of nothing more than commercial gain.

 

Glen I think that the last comment is a little unfair. My understanding of the purpose of a business is to create wealth, both for the creator of that business and all of its employees. We should not forget that all of our pension funds be they from the private or public sector depend upon the wealth created by business.

 

Coming back to our fisherman who may have invested several million or a few thousand pounds in his or her venture (better be politically correct would not like to get in trouble for being sexist), they have only done this to create wealth and make a decent living. They at least need sufficient respect from fisheries managers to be allowed to pay their way and make a resonable living. I admit that there have been plenty of cases of rule breaking that lead to unjustifiable greed in the past and that the the pelagic sector have been some of the biggest culprits. However you do not invest millions in a fishing unit to make a modest return.

 

Coming back to another point about has Hugh suggested an alternative management strategy?

 

That is not within his scope. He is a Chef with a passion about fish who is fortunate enough to have the media support to bring the madness of EU fisheries management to the attention of the British Public. We have seen endless documentries where scientists are talking about the demise of global fish stocks and blaming fishermen, never themselves who invented the management strategy.

 

This programme has bought some balance back into the equation ands shows the situation in a different light.

[big_cod]

Fully aware of that Steve. But history tells us that they will do anything in their power to be able to make money even at the expense of fish stocks. The only system that can ever work is one that truelly favours fish and not men with nets.

 

Youve been a member of this forum a long time Steve. No doubt you will remember a member called Binatone, who then morphed into a member called Challenge. Can you recall how many times he swore blind on this forum that in all of his years of commercial fishing he had never seen an illegal practice, he had never seen a blinder and he had never seen any discards. Now all of a sudden Discards are a massive problem and every boat is doing it. Why did he put so much time into deny the existence on discards when we all knew they were rife ?

 

Commercial fishermen aren't suddenly screaming about discards because they are concerned about fish, they're screaming about it because the quota system is now properly enforced and they want to land the discards (Just like they often used to illegally). If the quota system remained un-enforced there isnt a chance in hell that Hugh would have got his camera onboard any of those boats. This business of discards isnt a recent problem, its been going on for 20 years, alongside black fish, high grading and other illegal practices. I may be very cynical but the Agenda here is far bigger than the one that first meets the eye.

 

Hughs agenda is a good one and discards must be dealt with, but I wouldn't trust some of the others who have a hand in this, as far as I could throw them.

 

Unfortunatly sadly to say but there is a lot of truth here discards off this coast in 80s and 90ss were obscene remember 80ml codends were slaughter machines boats are now working 120ml a spot in right direction stocks are on the way up that is down to less effort and probably the last 2or 3 cold winters and cod hatch has been good plus those big french trawlers working of the head end have cleaned most of whiting up around this part of the world what is a cod larve worst enemy a whiting so there could be a few factors why things are moveing in the right direction but lets not kid ourselves we are many years away form the stocks of the 70ss , 80ss and the early 90ss i do well at putting my customers on the fish but beleive me a lot of boats really struggle at times it takes a lot of years to be good at any job the people i really feel for are the under 10ss now they have been persecuted what i cant understand is why they dont give boats more quota if they fish with what is known as sustainable fishing methods long lineing you are talking about litterally zero discards now that makes sense but the powers that be in commercial fishing aint under 10mtr fishermen.

 

paul.

[Steve Coppolo]

Here's some thing for you and others to ponder on.

If all the trawlers in the North Sea had landed all the fish they had caught in the last 10 years would it have made a difference to the very good cod fishing that Big Cod has had recently and regularly reminds us of on AN. If so, how?

 

That is a very good point. Someone should put that to the politicians, preferably in front of a TV camera.

[wurzel]

Just watched the last episode.

 

like Glenn, Hugh is not able to distinguish between undersized discard and discarding marketable fish,. The EU under pressure from NGO's like Green Peace set out to eliminate discard of undersized fish, they were under the elusion that this was the reason they considered fish stocks (cod) was not recovering at the rate they should be.(more like plenty of work for the management) The response from one EU rep was " you will never totally eliminate discards" he was referring to undersized or unwanted no value fish, he was right it can and is being addressed to minimize to the lowest possible levels but will never be eliminated. Until the two issues are separated he will get nowhere with the EU commission. just add confusion .

Another thing Hugh doesn't seem to readily admit is the fact that where ever he goes North of Scotland to Hastings cod are abundant and the main species being dumped solely because the science is wrong and is the main cause of the discarding of marketable fish.

Hopefully the public will now realise they have been misled (brainwashed) on the state of fish stocks (cod).