BARBLE IN" STILLWATERS!"

[seph]

Interesting subject. I fish a still water that is 13.5 acres and has barbel to 11lb 8oz, this I know because I have caught them to this weight. I don't know if there are any bigger fish in there as I have not heard of anything bigger being caught. I have never had anything under 3lb and I believe they are not breeding. On catching the barbel the first thing I noticed was how lean the fish were, yet long. The picture (if it works) shows a barbel of 8lb 6oz. This was one of 10 barbel on that visit and was the biggest but lost a double at the net, the smallset being 4lb 4oz

[Paul_D]

I was 'persuaded' to have a days fishing at the Woodlands complex near Thirsk a few years back and caught a few of the Barbel that, unfortunately, have to exist in the place. They were in very poor condition and a very washed out pale colour. Now whether this was because they simply didn't take to living in a puddle or because they had been caught a dozen times that week I wouldn't know, but I truly found it a disturbing experience fishing there and will not be going back in a hurry.

 

I'd noted early on in the days 'fishing' that a decent fish was alive and tethered to one of the vast array of floats lost by other 'anglers' amongst the foliage on the Island in front of my peg and duly pointed this out to the owner/money collector relieving me of the extortionate day ticket sum, hoping that he would assure me that a boat would be launched at the end of the days 'sport' to free the unfortunate fish. The look on his face spoke volumes.....poor fish.

[Peter Waller]

There are no barbel in my neck of the wood, I have never even seen one of the wee beasties. So, perhaps I am in no way qualified to comment.

 

On a personal basis I do object to anglers removing river specimens, of any species, and stocking them into a still-water, often a less than public fishery. Selfish? Yes. Ethical? No.

 

As for farmed fry being bred in an artificial environment for the purpose of stocking artificial environments, maybe that isn't selfish and probably it is ethical, so maybe its okay.

 

I suppose really, what many anglers object to, is the changes that artificial environments and alian introductions cause to their idyll of angling. And, sometimes regretfully, changes there are. Quite often still water fisheries are established alongside naturel rivers. Along comes a flood and, hey presto, alien fish are washed out into the river and so the character of a river becomes changed for all time. I cite as an example the case of carp that have been washed out of a nearby fishery and into the River Waveney. These fish now compete with the native bream. Its a welcome addition but are cultivated carp really a river fish? Certainly no one is complaining, apart from the Broads Authority conservation lobby who are less than impressed!

 

But so long as the change, e.g juvenile barbel into still waters, is in no way detrimental to the rivers then perhaps there can not be a morally sustainable objection. But if a scientist of repute, Bruno, will say that Barbel should not be in a still water then my mind remains open on the matter.

 

By the way, Barble and Perch Man, welcome to the forum. We are not afraid of a hearty debate!!

 

[ 18. December 2002, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: Peter Waller ]

[poledark]

Seph, that barbel looks fine to me, they are supposed to be long and lean! Colour also looks fine.

 

Den

[Peter Waller]

poledark:

Seph, that barbel looks fine to me, they are supposed to be long and lean! Colour also looks fine.

 

 Den

Come on Den, look at the fish's eyes! Poor thing is scowling and it's mouth is down at the corners!

[Bruno Broughton]

This is well worn ground, so I won't stay on it long or repeat old arguments.

 

The problem with the 'they shouldn't be in here' logic is that, historically, barbel's natural distribution in the UK was restricted to rivers discharging eastwards, into the North Sea (Yorks Ouse & tribs, Trent, Norfolk rivers, Thames).

 

Other barbel poulations are a consequence of man-made introductions, including those in the Hampshire rivers, Bristol Avon, Severn, Welsh rivers, Dane, Ribble, etc. Make no mistake - if the current EA rules were in force then, barbel would have been excluded from a large number of UK rivers.

 

In stillwaters WHICH ARE SUITABLE, small, farm-bred, introduced barbel seem to grow well and - apparently - live a life as 'normal' as carp, for example. In virtually all of them they will fail to breed, but otherwise they seem OK.

 

'Suitable' usually means adequate natural food, some water flow, reasonable depth (and absence of very warm, summer water conditions), sufficient dissolved oxygen, etc. That is why some gravel pits, and some deeper stillwaters, may be suitable. Muddy, 'carp hole' type fisheries do not suit the species, and the transfer of large, river barbel is equally unwise for obvious survival reasons.

 

Once we tread onto grounds of morality or ethics, things get very complicated... so I won't go there.

[Gray-Catchpole]

as you all have said, this has been done over and over again, and for "THE BARBLE AND PERCH MAN" or carl, as he is "well" known, as, to come in and start this thread, is just a little stiring for his own entertainment, having fun carl??

[RUDD]

Barble man Barble man have you any fish?

 

Yes sir yes sir, i,ve had six

 

Two Three pounders, Three at six then one at Ten that was called fruit mix!

 

Barble man Barble man how do you know this?

 

Cause i,ve caught it four times this season

on a fruit boilie mix!

 

I am in the same boat as Pete Waller.

I live in E.anglia and there is only one place to catch Barble from a river which is the Wensum.

The trouble is that the same pools are fished day in day out every day of the season as there are not many spots that hold big Barble.

The same thing is happening on most big Barble rivers all over the country.

Ten years ago big Carp were most specimen hunters quarry but now you can catch a Twenty pounder +

from just about any carp water.

I have noticed over the last few years the rise in Barble articles in the angling press as more and more anglers target these fish.

Dont Barble anglers get bored trying to catch the same fish over and over?

I class myself as an allrounder and dont mind what species I catch or what venue I catch it at.

It also seems that the best Barble stretches of river are now being taken over by syndicates with vast amounts of cash passing hands, the same as what happened years ago on the best carp pools!

[trent.barbeler]

Dear All,

 

My personal views on the stocking of barbel into stillwater environments intentionally are well known, so no need for myself to go over old ground again. I will take this opportunity though of reaffirming I am totally against this practise.

 

Some interesting comments and opinions here on this thread though all the same.

 

Peter says;

 

"As for farmed fry being bred in an artificial environment for the purpose of stocking artificial environments, maybe that isn't selfish and probably it is ethical, so maybe its okay."

 

What Peter says above is infact true in some circumstances. All sorts of fish species are bred and reared under artificial conditions for all sorts of purposes. Trout for example are amongst the "commodity" list of species that are both commercially farmed for food and for re-stocking for recreational fishing purposes. The same applies to Salmon. Many different species of course fish are also reared on in artificial conditions for the purposes of stocking all manner of recreational fisheries. And for the ornamental market place. This, is the norm within the aquaculture and angling world.

 

But there "is" more to this in regards to barbel

being reared on under artificial conditions when these reared fish are destined for stillwater environments. Where, do the eggs for these artificial barbel rearing programes come from? Does everyone assume that these eggs and their fertilisation are obtained from within these artificial breeding environments entirely? Or do the majority of these fertilised eggs come from wild environments namely the rivers themselves?

 

These questions are NOT moral ones in the normal sense. Merely questions asked as to the wisdom of taking fertilised eggs from wild environments.

 

Rivers, their environments and aquatic species are coming under all sorts of threats. Endocrine Disrupters, still a relatively unknown threat that continue to pose a serious threat to wild breeding fish. ED's are still being researched as to their long term effects on the rivers environment, and many experts have already expressed grave concerns towards ED's being responsible for the break down of some fish species capabilities to breed successfully in wild environments effected by the presence of ED's in the river water.

 

Cormorants continue to pose the gravest of threats against all fish species in the lower year classes.

 

Otters, are rapidly spreading throughout our river systems and the threat they pose is towards the upper year classes of fish species. Believe me, the damage these otherwise fascinating creatures will cause to fisheries in the future will be tremendous.

 

Is it wise then, when these and many more threats prevail against our rivers and their fish species, to be stripping fish of their eggs from wild environments when these wild environments urgently need all the help that nature itself can give them?

 

Whilst I "AM" opposed to stocking barbel into stillwater environments, I take on board what Bruno says in the fact that barbel "DO" survive in certain types of stillwater environments.

 

But if the EA are continuing their practise of taking eggs and fertilising them from sourses in wild river environments, I call for this practise to stop unless the eggs are intended for rearing programes aimed at replacing fish stocks lost in rivers to the threats already listed.

 

It should be stated at this point however that in part, rearing programes of barbel intended for stillwater environments "HAVE" been part responsible towards some amazing developments in terms of successful and effective fish farming/rearing techniques. Believe me, river anglers are going to be very dependent on these new techniques of fish rearing in the future if the threats prevail. Personally, I believe such threats will grow rapidly and not diminish for some considerable time.

 

In the past, a lot of barbel eggs have been taken from the wild barbel that live and thrive in my local river the Trent. Trent barbel are a very healthy strain of barbel. They are also very fast growing. I welcome rearing programes done under artificial conditions from eggs stripped from Trent wild barbel if these reared fish are destined for rivers urgently in need of re-stocking due to predation or pollution. But I am totally against using wild barbel eggs stipped from the wild environments for either ornamental or stillwater recreational purposes.

 

Our river systems are a treasured national heritage. A treasure to be protected and preserved. As such, all river anglers are wholly opposed to anything that either remains a threat or poses one to their rivers already tenuous ballance. And eggs within these river spawning fish, year upon year, provide hope for their ultimate continuence and survival.

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[THE BARBEL AND PERCH MAN]

Why are u people all against me? i only want to c whats right for the fish! the barbel is a river fish and should not be swimmin round in a mud puddle somewhere and no im not havin fun mate! i just want 2 know peoples views on the subject!

and just to prove my point look at that barbels face! does it look happy no! it cant breed its stuck in the same old muddy hole day in day out and its probably been caught over and over again come on lets see sence that the barbel is a river fish and should be fished for on a river now stop givin me abuse and just say your view is that hard enough? :mad: