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Need help with piking


ejmcdonald
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those you stamp "the pike police" have all the best intentions. Phone,

 

careful with the unhooking mat debate i almost got hung for putting a pike on soft wet grass a few years ago.

 

 

Please note Andy that I didn't introduce the term 'pike police'.

 

Just who are these lot who 'almost hung you' for using wet grass to unhook pike? tel em to F off and mind their own business....I am so glad that 90 plus % of my fishin' is done from my boat and I dont even see another angler most days. Below are a few pictures from this years fishin' file, These area all taken from the shore, and I refuse to cart an unhooking mat around with me, its bad enough on one club water having to carry a net which I would never use. And before any lectures come my way, about leaving fish lying around hooked, the picture taking takes a couple of seconds and we have been asked by the lake district authority to photograph all catches (of pike)for our returns as part of ongoing research at Lancaster university.

None of these (mostly little) pike suffered from being laid on soft grass to be quickly unhooked and returned.

 

IMG_0061.jpg

 

IMG_0055.jpg

 

IMG_0053.jpg

 

PICT00112.jpg

Edited by Emma two
"Some people hear their inner voices with such clarity that they live by what they hear, such people go crazy, but they become legends"
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I forgot, you had better see this whopper too...

 

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"Some people hear their inner voices with such clarity that they live by what they hear, such people go crazy, but they become legends"
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Phone

1st point

What scientific evidence is there that favors a slimeball disease infested bacteria concentrating black unhooking mat?

 

Perhaps pikers are much like my fellow carpers. The use them because they are told to. Not because they are safer. They are NOT.

 

No scientific evidence is needed is it, quite simply you remove the mucus from a fish it will be more prone to catching disease's..black is not relevant to any thing i can see, after every fish i have i have on the mat i stick the mat in the water i am fishing and wash any mucus off before the mat is attached to my lure bag, over here we have club rules which should adhered to or you could get banned from club and water,why do you say they are not safe??

 

Point 2

The subject of the thread is roughly "the guy needs help learning". Fair enough, I too would like to know. The fish you call "pike" we call "northern pike" and they are a favored target fish among sporting anglers (Esox lucius).

 

The advice i gave in my eyes was helpful, teaching some about the basic's is where we all started off from, every one should learn basics, yes they are favoured as a sport fish

 

Point 3

Why isn't 8 lb line enough for UK pike? Skilled Black Bass anglers in the US use very heavy line because it is paramount to "horse" fish into the boat as quickly as possible with NO clutch and line burning reel speed. It reduces the risk of a lure caught fish coming off. Pike guys in the US/Canada don't use heavy line in open water. Is it the culture of your style in the UK that would require recommending heavy line?

 

First off as a newbie 8-10lb is not strong enough, the guy stated that he was not hooking the fish, so whats the first thing that go's through his mind "i am not striking hard enough" so next fish take and he strike too hard and snaps the line: result lost lure, lost pike, with a lure in its mouth both not desireable. plus the reason why heavy line /braid is required is that when lure fishing in summer the best practice is too get the fish in quickly as to not tire the fish out to exhaustion ( see ban on summer piking thread)The swimming strength of a pike is not the greatest of freshwater fish, but it can give a tremendous burst of speed,quotes of 30yrds in a second do the rounds but i have not read any scientific research to say this is correct?? could you give your reason as to why you think 50lb power pro is too weak for a newbie???Line weight is guided by size of lure and rod rating

 

Emma 2

Telling some one to f%%% off and to mind their own business might get the reply that it is their business as they to have to pay for the rod licence as well and that they want the fish returned in a relative healthy state.Strange you say that you refuse to cart a unhooking mat around with you ? i wonder what your club rules state, then you use the on going research with a university as an "its ok reply" not to do so.

whilst i put fish down on WET grass sometimes, the pictures you've provided 2nd 3rd and 4th look anything but wet.Next time you take a picture of a pike on the grass ,take a second one same spot and see if you notice anything left behing? you've seemed to developed a state of thought that just because you see no one else on your lakes/tarns that you are able to do as you please and thats ok...thats fine you must go with you own conscience.But what happens when others also notice you fish on your own and then start to notice damaged and diseased fish turning up and then point out that its you they see mostly fishing said waters???

 

yours inspector esox :D

concentrate for the moment: feel. don't think.

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W

 

 

Emma 2

Telling some one to f%%% off and to mind their own business might get the reply that it is their business as they to have to pay for the rod licence as well and that they want the fish returned in a relative healthy state.Strange you say that you refuse to cart a unhooking mat around with you ? i wonder what your club rules state, then you use the on going research with a university as an "its ok reply" not to do so.

whilst i put fish down on WET grass sometimes, the pictures you've provided 2nd 3rd and 4th look anything but wet.Next time you take a picture of a pike on the grass ,take a second one same spot and see if you notice anything left behing? you've seemed to developed a state of thought that just because you see no one else on your lakes/tarns that you are able to do as you please and thats ok...thats fine you must go with you own conscience.But what happens when others also notice you fish on your own and then start to notice damaged and diseased fish turning up and then point out that its you they see mostly fishing said waters???

 

yours inspector esox :D

 

 

I know that there would be 'one', and so there is. Ok one bit at a time, You have no evidence to support the notion that my grass unhooked fish have been returned in bad order, I on the other hand have found that sometimes fish I have previously caught have turned up (been caught ) again. and caught quite alive, in some cases a few years later and proportionately heavier. The person who is told to F off will be very disappointed around here if they make a habit of picking people up on their unhooking methods. I have a pal who is quite convinced anyone who returns good meat is nuts and pins his pike with a trip flare picket before despatching them with a purpose carried tomahawk he bought when we were fishing in the rockies (Canada). I don't agree with him or his methods, he still has a go at me over a double figure pike I nagged him to return in 1979.

We are not all 'members of clubs' and therefore don't have 'club rules'..I pay money to one local club in order to be allowed to fish one of their waters, I am not a member, its a club for carp people, there is nothing in their rules about mats or photographs for pike. They like me to carry a net so I do. I was raised as a game angler (trout and salmon) and as such taught to only handle fish which were to be returned using wet hands. In the 70s I moved awau from home, I had never seen 'general coarse fishers' until then, one of the prominent things I saw which make me cringe was small fish being swung into dry hands, so please dont lecture me about the protective slime on fish and the potential problems of burning it off and a hot dru jabd does it far more effectively than grass). I have watched people using mats, as someone has said they must only do it because they have been told to...they often put the fish on dry!

 

I do use mats on my boat and on the odd occasion when I am static and deadbaiting. I won't carry one when mobile shore fishing, I struggle as it is my walking and overall mobility is limited, everything I need goes into or hangs off a good bellows pocket vest the only place to put a mat would be the large pocket in the back. So to use it I would have to take the vest off, kneel down by the water and wet it, untie it, lay it out ready to operate on the pike, right the pike, jumping and flapping around with a lure in it's mouth while I fanny around getting out and wetting a mat...wholly unrealistic, ridiculous even and potentially far more damaging for the fish.

 

Despite what you think you cannot tell the 'wetness levels' of the grass in my pictures. The uni research was mentioned as a rationale for taking pictures, I know from reading in here that soem modern anglers think it wrong to photograph all they catch.

Your 'they will notice me, and blame me for damaging fish' scenario made me smile, where do you think I am? it's the western lakes, not the wild west, sure I often don't see another angler, but by no means am I the only one who fishes them, a fellow cane on the lake last night as we were recovering the boat he was going to shore fish, had a baitcaster with lures, waders and fleece, no net and def no mat, Two fellows similarly rigged out on thursday on the shore under the mountain, i know 'em and if they told you to F off you would have escaped lightly from poking your nose in. I don't harm the fish, anymore than anyone else who fishes does. Of that I am confident and nothing you have said leads me to imagine otherwise. Your notions would be ok in an ideal world, but are not in my real one.

Edited by Emma two
"Some people hear their inner voices with such clarity that they live by what they hear, such people go crazy, but they become legends"
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Inspector,

 

We agree on everything execpt mats. - - - and remember, I too am learning about Euro piking.

 

As I suggested to Emma two, line weight is probably mute if the guy will use braid. I am told by you and others, and I believe, is better for pike fishing. I believe I misinterperted the words in your () . I read it as "an" and I now believe you "typo'ed" the word "no". My bad for not asking in the first place. Two dimensions is tough, especially for me to be critical since I am, at best, a very poor typer, and even worse speller.

 

As for the mats. Here's my opening comment.

 

I will be as kind and gentle as I feel I can be while (whilst) disclosing the truth.

 

First, let me say I am somewhat a realist. I don’t believe the world is any worse off because some fauna or flora is extinct any more than I feel the world is worse off because we don’t have dinosaurs anymore. The world is dynamic and ever changing. We now have 7 billion people currently on this earth and by 2050 we will have 9 billion. I don’t know or even want to predict the outcome. It's just fishing we are talking about.

 

I think we should continue to fish just like we do. I see no reason to feel guilty if a few fish expire. Neither should we be hypocritical about why we do what we do. Namely practice catch and release fishing, with weights and photos.

 

I do know this, for sure, of the five most harmful things anglers do, the most harmful is to use an unhooking mat. Unhooking mats are merely a physical convenience suitable to arriving at the next step, weighing and photographing. No one likes a nasty looking fish in a photograph and photos are necessary in catch and release. Unhooking mats are olive or black for a reason. It is to cover the overlay of what every angler must know is the worst possible collection of harmful biological materials we could possibly subject the fish to. Especially in the summer months when ambient mat temperatures (if black) exceed air temperatures on average by 10 or more degrees, and then are damp folded or re-wet before use creating a most awful environment. We in effect, create the best possible conditions to transmit virus, microorganisms and bacteria from fish to fish. Overall fish from a unclean black mat are in the worst possible conditions for a healthy release. If safety were an issue they would at a minimum become a white mat. It would allow the angler a chance to use visible care even if the fish slime could not be totally washed off with pond water. White would also reduce the heat retention and build-up in our traditional mats. Dirt and leaves have anaerobic and antibiotic properties not found in the synthetic surface of a mat. Airborne pathogens in dirt and vegetation are not usually as likely to be transmitted to fishes as waterborne pathogens. From a “fish care” perspective dirt (especially dry dust) is far better and vegetation is better yet. Although I admit, dirt and vegetation make for crummy pictures and pictures are part of what we do. For sure aesthetics play a huge role in the pictures we treasure.

 

If you insist on using a mat as a means of keeping the fish clean for the visual effect/affect of a photography session the least you should do is carry a harmless environmentally and biologically friendly non-ionic surfactant. Preferably one in a can under pressure. Use it every time between fish on both the mat and the net (if you use a net). It is quite inexpensive. At least it would help the fish and make the “fish care” or “safety” story slightly believable.

 

Lastly, don’t BS yourself or anyone else on the purpose of a mat. Fish give fish diseases and the mat is the one place they are most vulnerable and at a time they are most vulnerable especially after being collectively stacked up over the course of a session. You don’t have to feel badly if a few fish die. It happens – remember they are only fish.

 

Phone

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its a shame pike threads always end up like this....

 

Emma sorry for saying it was you saying pike police :P and the mat thing was on here and was all very tongue in cheek. i was dubbed Andy no mat, thankfully that never stuck.

 

The swimming strength of a pike is not the greatest of freshwater fish.

 

you might not have caught a 20lb+ pike in 4ft of water? where the only place they have to go is straight ahead. :D

 

Also if you really wanted to be pedantic about disease dont you think that washing an unhooking mat in the water each time risks the spread of disease to other waters you wash it in?

 

Perhaps pikers are much like my fellow carpers. The use them because they are told to. Not because they are safer. They are NOT.

 

They are if you think of it this way. my reasons for using an unhooking mat are that fish thrash about on the bank a padded unhooking mat will prevent them giving them self brain damage and other injuries such as scratches and cuts from stones,gravel, etc. sounds like a safe way to put any fish down on the ground.

 

Phone, they are not just for keeping the fish looking good for the photo they serve purpose like i mention above. a double figure fish could do itself a bit of damage if it headbutted the ground. you do have some interesting points, though maybe a bit OTT ?

 

they are also quite good to sit on when yer piles are playing up, i just hope piles aint contagious to fish :rolleyes: (that was a joke btw i dont have piles :unsure: )

Owner of Tacklesack.co.uk


Moderator at The-Pikers-Pit.co.uk

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W

 

 

 

 

 

I know that there would be 'one', and so there is. Ok one bit at a time, You have no evidence to support the notion that my grass unhooked fish have been returned in bad order, I on the other hand have found that sometimes fish I have previously caught have turned up (been caught ) again. and caught quite alive, in some cases a few years later and proportionately heavier. The person who is told to F off will be very disappointed around here if they make a habit of picking people up on their unhooking methods. I have a pal who is quite convinced anyone who returns good meat is nuts and pins his pike with a trip flare picket before despatching them with a purpose carried tomahawk he bought when we were fishing in the rockies (Canada). I don't agree with him or his methods, he still has a go at me over a double figure pike I nagged him to return in 1979.

We are not all 'members of clubs' and therefore don't have 'club rules'..I pay money to one local club in order to be allowed to fish one of their waters, I am not a member, its a club for carp people, there is nothing in their rules about mats or photographs for pike. They like me to carry a net so I do. I was raised as a game angler (trout and salmon) and as such taught to only handle fish which were to be returned using wet hands. In the 70s I moved awau from home, I had never seen 'general coarse fishers' until then, one of the prominent things I saw which make me cringe was small fish being swung into dry hands, so please dont lecture me about the protective slime on fish and the potential problems of burning it off and a hot dru jabd does it far more effectively than grass). I have watched people using mats, as someone has said they must only do it because they have been told to...they often put the fish on dry!

 

I do use mats on my boat and on the odd occasion when I am static and deadbaiting. I won't carry one when mobile shore fishing, I struggle as it is my walking and overall mobility is limited, everything I need goes into or hangs off a good bellows pocket vest the only place to put a mat would be the large pocket in the back. So to use it I would have to take the vest off, kneel down by the water and wet it, untie it, lay it out ready to operate on the pike, right the pike, jumping and flapping around with a lure in it's mouth while I fanny around getting out and wetting a mat...wholly unrealistic, ridiculous even and potentially far more damaging for the fish.

 

Despite what you think you cannot tell the 'wetness levels' of the grass in my pictures. The uni research was mentioned as a rationale for taking pictures, I know from reading in here that soem modern anglers think it wrong to photograph all they catch.

Your 'they will notice me, and blame me for damaging fish' scenario made me smile, where do you think I am? it's the western lakes, not the wild west, sure I often don't see another angler, but by no means am I the only one who fishes them, a fellow cane on the lake last night as we were recovering the boat he was going to shore fish, had a baitcaster with lures, waders and fleece, no net and def no mat, Two fellows similarly rigged out on thursday on the shore under the mountain, i know 'em and if they told you to F off you would have escaped lightly from poking your nose in. I don't harm the fish, anymore than anyone else who fishes does. Of that I am confident and nothing you have said leads me to imagine otherwise. Your notions would be ok in an ideal world, but are not in my real one.

 

i never said they where returned in bad order, merely that that woud be returned less protected el natural,

as refering to unhooking mats you stated that

"and I refuse to cart an unhooking mat around with me, its bad enough on one club water having to carry a net which I would never use" then say you on occasion use for deadbaiting when your static ...you either do or do not!

the rest is straw men arguments which have no place in the debate,and violence solves nothing

and as for saying i can not tell the "wetness levels" ..oh please come on you can clearly see that the grass is not wet whether using a flash or not on the camera.

we clearly live in parts of the country and fish in very different ways

as for being one,..... yes one of many i hope

 

may you fish in peace :)

Edited by smudger

concentrate for the moment: feel. don't think.

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Inspector,

 

We agree on everything execpt mats. - - - and remember, I too am learning about Euro piking.

 

As I suggested to Emma two, line weight is probably mute if the guy will use braid. I am told by you and others, and I believe, is better for pike fishing. I believe I misinterperted the words in your () . I read it as "an" and I now believe you "typo'ed" the word "no". My bad for not asking in the first place. Two dimensions is tough, especially for me to be critical since I am, at best, a very poor typer, and even worse speller.

 

As for the mats. Here's my opening comment.

 

I will be as kind and gentle as I feel I can be while (whilst) disclosing the truth.

 

First, let me say I am somewhat a realist. I don’t believe the world is any worse off because some fauna or flora is extinct any more than I feel the world is worse off because we don’t have dinosaurs anymore. The world is dynamic and ever changing. We now have 7 billion people currently on this earth and by 2050 we will have 9 billion. I don’t know or even want to predict the outcome. It's just fishing we are talking about.

 

I think we should continue to fish just like we do. I see no reason to feel guilty if a few fish expire. Neither should we be hypocritical about why we do what we do. Namely practice catch and release fishing, with weights and photos.

 

I do know this, for sure, of the five most harmful things anglers do, the most harmful is to use an unhooking mat. Unhooking mats are merely a physical convenience suitable to arriving at the next step, weighing and photographing. No one likes a nasty looking fish in a photograph and photos are necessary in catch and release. Unhooking mats are olive or black for a reason. It is to cover the overlay of what every angler must know is the worst possible collection of harmful biological materials we could possibly subject the fish to. Especially in the summer months when ambient mat temperatures (if black) exceed air temperatures on average by 10 or more degrees, and then are damp folded or re-wet before use creating a most awful environment. We in effect, create the best possible conditions to transmit virus, microorganisms and bacteria from fish to fish. Overall fish from a unclean black mat are in the worst possible conditions for a healthy release. If safety were an issue they would at a minimum become a white mat. It would allow the angler a chance to use visible care even if the fish slime could not be totally washed off with pond water. White would also reduce the heat retention and build-up in our traditional mats. Dirt and leaves have anaerobic and antibiotic properties not found in the synthetic surface of a mat. Airborne pathogens in dirt and vegetation are not usually as likely to be transmitted to fishes as waterborne pathogens. From a “fish care” perspective dirt (especially dry dust) is far better and vegetation is better yet. Although I admit, dirt and vegetation make for crummy pictures and pictures are part of what we do. For sure aesthetics play a huge role in the pictures we treasure.

 

If you insist on using a mat as a means of keeping the fish clean for the visual effect/affect of a photography session the least you should do is carry a harmless environmentally and biologically friendly non-ionic surfactant. Preferably one in a can under pressure. Use it every time between fish on both the mat and the net (if you use a net). It is quite inexpensive. At least it would help the fish and make the “fish care” or “safety” story slightly believable.

 

Lastly, don’t BS yourself or anyone else on the purpose of a mat. Fish give fish diseases and the mat is the one place they are most vulnerable and at a time they are most vulnerable especially after being collectively stacked up over the course of a session. You don’t have to feel badly if a few fish die. It happens – remember they are only fish.

 

Phone

Firstly i do not need to bulls%%% myself or anyone else I mostly fish on my own and do not feel the need to take picture of every fish i catch, so don't carry a camera= more weight

 

Are you really trying say that a fish layed on the ground covered in dust, dirt,is better than a clean fish layed on unhooking mat??? :rolleyes:

As for fish to fish disease yes it happens every day and if its going to happen don't you think it would happen in the enviroment they live ie; the water they share and swim in and not wait until they might share a unhooking mat? :mellow:

 

As for stacking up fish over a session, your thinking carp maybe we don't do that over here with pike

 

As for feeling bad about a fish that dies ,yes if i've caught it and it dies i do feel a bit bad, may be like feeling a lack of skill or proffessionlism.Unlike you we are only a small island with limited resourses of fish we have enough problems with our Eastern friends raping our rivers,lakes, canals etc without throwing out good fish handling and welfare pratices,

 

Yes they are only fish, but we pay for those fish and don't you think we sort of owe it to the fish and ourselves to respect them and how we handle them and make sure there are fish for future generations of anglers. If we can not look after the stocks of fish who else will pay for them to be there in years to come.

concentrate for the moment: feel. don't think.

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its a shame pike threads always end up like this....

 

Emma sorry for saying it was you saying pike police :P and the mat thing was on here and was all very tongue in cheek. i was dubbed Andy no mat, thankfully that never stuck.

 

 

 

you might not have caught a 20lb+ pike in 4ft of water? where the only place they have to go is straight ahead. :D

 

Also if you really wanted to be pedantic about disease dont you think that washing an unhooking mat in the water each time risks the spread of disease to other waters you wash it in?

 

 

 

They are if you think of it this way. my reasons for using an unhooking mat are that fish thrash about on the bank a padded unhooking mat will prevent them giving them self brain damage and other injuries such as scratches and cuts from stones,gravel, etc. sounds like a safe way to put any fish down on the ground.

 

Phone, they are not just for keeping the fish looking good for the photo they serve purpose like i mention above. a double figure fish could do itself a bit of damage if it headbutted the ground. you do have some interesting points, though maybe a bit OTT ?

 

they are also quite good to sit on when yer piles are playing up, i just hope piles aint contagious to fish :rolleyes: (that was a joke btw i dont have piles :unsure: )

 

Andy don't you wash your mat off when you get home :o , i have no shed or garage so net and mat get a good wash off and hung to dry, if not the fragrance is not condusive to a happy relationship as i have found :rolleyes::D:D

 

"you might not have caught a 20lb+ pike in 4ft of water? where the only place they have to go is straight ahead. :D"

 

Have had that with smaller fish,had a mid double that must have seen the lure coming towards it and broke the surface like a dolphin for a good 10 yards or more, nearly lost the rod reel, just managed to hang on to the lot, once the run was over came to the net in under a minute, continue to be amazed by pike and what they will/can do

Edited by smudger

concentrate for the moment: feel. don't think.

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