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you said

 

after every fish i have i have on the mat i stick the mat in the water i am fishing and wash any mucus off before the mat is attached to my lure bag, over here we have club rules which should adhered to or you could get banned from club and water,why do you say they are not safe??

 

so you do wash your mat at home ? sorry it just didnt come across like that.

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you said

 

after every fish i have i have on the mat i stick the mat in the water i am fishing and wash any mucus off before the mat is attached to my lure bag, over here we have club rules which should adhered to or you could get banned from club and water,why do you say they are not safe??

 

so you do wash your mat at home ? sorry it just didnt come across like that.

yes and if the mat has mucus on it after fish is put back, i stick the mat dirty side down in water and wash off.

concentrate for the moment: feel. don't think.

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i never said they wherereturned in bad order, merely that that woud be returned less protected el natural,

as refering to unhooking mats you stated that

"and I refuse to cart an unhooking mat around with me, its bad enough on one club water having to carry a net which I would never use" then say you on occasion use for deadbaiting when your static ...you either do or do not!

the rest is straw men arguments which have no place in the debate,and violence solves nothing

and as for saying i can not tell the "wetness levels" ..oh please come on you can clearly see that the grass is not wet whether using a flash or not on the camera.

we clearly live in parts of the country and fish in very different ways

as for being one,..... yes one of many i hope

 

may you fish in peace :)

 

 

I don't contradict myself. When mobile on foot fishing, that is slowly moving along a selected bit of shore, using a single rod and lures I won't carry a mat, when static (dead baiting) I do, because a load of stuff is carried anyway, holdalls, rod pods, landing net, thermos flasks, sandwiches (these tend to be longer sessions), bait bucket etc, It's impossible for me to carry all that stuff, and so only do it when there is someone free to carry it for me. We tend to set up on gravel bits of shore and so a mat is good, and when we do use one we use it properly, clean, wet and with wet hands we keep a soaking shemagh by the mat. So using one method I do and for another I do not..its not difficult

 

I'm unsure as to where your 'violence solves nothing' comments comes from (why did you say it? I wasn't offering any), it is of course a debatable point of philosophy, try telling it to the government, they paid me for most of my working life to be violent on their/your behalf. But that is a different thing altogether.

 

Picture 1 ..I remember was a jack from a particular corner of a tarn, I caught it again a few weeks after that pic, so it may be dying from my handling but it hasnt yet.

picture 2, I do remember well, it wasn't long ago, the fish took a masterline toothy critter 4" spoon which I counted down to the bottom of the deepest shelf of the tarn, and it was raining, I left for home after only a few more casts. You can see the damp on the cork rod handle.

pictures 3 and 4 were taken in the very wet marsh which surrounds a tarn, squidgy up to the wader knees.

 

 

I'm so much more 'Holier than thou' has no place in the debate either.

"Some people hear their inner voices with such clarity that they live by what they hear, such people go crazy, but they become legends"
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Smudger,

 

In the first comment, I was mearly suggesting that C&R includes the use of photos and weights. Like you, most of my fish are released whilst still in the water if I can. I don't even have a cell phone camera (to my daughters disgust). But I'm not critical of folks who wish to do that.

 

"Are you really trying say that a fish layed on the ground covered in dust, dirt,is better than a clean fish layed on unhooking mat??? "

 

Answer: Yes (if fish safety is the issue) Recovery in the water is minimal, less slime is "lost" and the loss of slime is not a contributing factor in most freshwater fish diseases. Parasites yes - disease no. Overall, we have to admit there is no "up" side to a fish out of water.

 

"Are you really trying say that a fish layed on the ground covered in dust, dirt,is better than a clean fish layed on unhooking mat???

As for fish to fish disease yes it happens every day and if its going to happen don't you think it would happen in the enviroment they live ie; the water they share and swim in and not wait until they might share a unhooking mat? "

 

Yes, the mat exacerbates the concentration of pathogens. Rinsing in water is a joke.

 

"As for stacking up fish over a session, your thinking carp maybe we don't do that over here with pike."

 

Change the word "stacking" I mean catching more than one fish per session and reusing the same mat.

 

"i do feel a bit bad"

 

You shouldn't, they are just fish. (That's assuming you are a good steward to the sport).

 

The rest of your comments I'd say offhand, the size of England or the number of inhabitants is not your responsibility as an angler. You should only be concerned with yourself and teaching (not preaching) others. In fact, from my side of the pond you guys mostly preach to the choir. You do wonderfully by our standards. You do have differences of parochial opinion but I would hope that is the case - wouldn't you?

 

Trust me, throughout the world, execpt in rare circumstances, unhooking mats are an English "guilt complex" that only serve the "anti's". Fish survival and good health improves in there absense.

 

Also, I don't know how to be computer fancy so I cut and pasted from your post #39 then posted the answers underneath.

 

Phone

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Emma sorry for saying it was you saying pike police :P and the mat thing was on here and was all very tongue in cheek. i was dubbed Andy no mat, thankfully that never stuck.

 

 

It's ok Andy, you did have me doubting myself for a moment though, and I'm usually quite sure about what I have said, I looked back through the posts just to be sure, thought it was not something that I would say. :)

"Some people hear their inner voices with such clarity that they live by what they hear, such people go crazy, but they become legends"
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I don't contradict myself. When mobile on foot fishing, that is slowly moving along a selected bit of shore, using a single rod and lures I won't carry a mat, when static (dead baiting) I do, because a load of stuff is carried anyway, holdalls, rod pods, landing net, thermos flasks, sandwiches (these tend to be longer sessions), bait bucket etc, It's impossible for me to carry all that stuff, and so only do it when there is someone free to carry it for me. We tend to set up on gravel bits of shore and so a mat is good, and when we do use one we use it properly, clean, wet and with wet hands we keep a soaking shemagh by the mat. So using one method I do and for another I do not..its not difficult

 

I'm unsure as to where your 'violence solves nothing' comments comes from (why did you say it? I wasn't offering any), it is of course a debatable point of philosophy, try telling it to the government, they paid me for most of my working life to be violent on their/your behalf. But that is a different thing altogether.

 

Picture 1 ..I remember was a jack from a particular corner of a tarn, I caught it again a few weeks after that pic, so it may be dying from my handling but it hasnt yet.

picture 2, I do remember well, it wasn't long ago, the fish took a masterline toothy critter 4" spoon which I counted down to the bottom of the deepest shelf of the tarn, and it was raining, I left for home after only a few more casts. You can see the damp on the cork rod handle.

pictures 3 and 4 were taken in the very wet marsh which surrounds a tarn, squidgy up to the wader knees.

 

 

I'm so much more 'Holier than thou' has no place in the debate either.

emma2

"Violence solves nothing" coment come as a reply to your stating that i would not poke my nose in to other perosn fishing pratices, and going by the looks of some i would not question their methods

 

I'm so much more 'Holier than thou' [/i]has no place in the debate either

 

niether doe's "i do as i like" has place in modern day fishing practice's

concentrate for the moment: feel. don't think.

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Smudger,

 

In the first comment, I was mearly suggesting that C&R includes the use of photos and weights. Like you, most of my fish are released whilst still in the water if I can. I don't even have a cell phone camera (to my daughters disgust). But I'm not critical of folks who wish to do that.

 

"Are you really trying say that a fish layed on the ground covered in dust, dirt,is better than a clean fish layed on unhooking mat??? "

 

Answer: Yes (if fish safety is the issue) Recovery in the water is minimal, less slime is "lost" and the loss of slime is not a contributing factor in most freshwater fish diseases. Parasites yes - disease no. Overall, we have to admit there is no "up" side to a fish out of water.

 

"Are you really trying say that a fish layed on the ground covered in dust, dirt,is better than a clean fish layed on unhooking mat???

As for fish to fish disease yes it happens every day and if its going to happen don't you think it would happen in the enviroment they live ie; the water they share and swim in and not wait until they might share a unhooking mat? "

 

Yes, the mat exacerbates the concentration of pathogens. Phone"As for stacking up fish over a session, your thinking carp maybe we don't do that over here with pike."

 

Change the word "stacking" I mean catching more than one fish per session and reusing the same mat.

 

"i do feel a bit bad"

 

You shouldn't, they are just fish. (That's assuming you are a good steward to the sport).

 

The rest of your comments I'd say offhand, the size of England or the number of inhabitants is not your responsibility as an angler. You should only be concerned with yourself and teaching (not preaching) others. In fact, from my side of the pond you guys mostly preach to the choir. You do wonderfully by our standards. You do have differences of parochial opinion but I would hope that is the case - wouldn't you?

 

Trust me, throughout the world, execpt in rare circumstances, unhooking mats are an English "guilt complex" that only serve the "anti's". Fish survival and good health improves in there absense.

 

Also, I don't know how to be computer fancy so I cut and pasted from your post #39 then posted the answers underneath.

 

Phone

Phone

 

"Rinsing in water is a joke".

As opposed to rinsing in dust and dirt....get real :lol:

 

As for parochial depends by which definition you want to use, i certainly would not say i am narrow minded or provincial,or is that your attempt at haviing a dig, as was (That's assuming you are a good steward to the sport) jibe <_<

 

Then you say trust me..nah thanks i am happy with my "English quilt complex" thanks and i'll stick to using a mat when it's needed,and yes unhooking in the water is fare better,but if your fishing off a high bank, landing net and unhooking mat all the way,all the time :rolleyes:

 

Next you're be telling me boga grips (which are used extensively in the US) are also good for fish welfare, any enlightened words on those butcher tools. :angry:

 

I guess you don't have fisherie rules that you should follow.Over here we do..and most try to abide by them,if not people would turn with dynamite, compond bows,shot guns, and such like and we would end up like......well you get the jist

 

you have nice day now :rolleyes:

concentrate for the moment: feel. don't think.

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emma2

niether doe's "i do as i like" has place in modern day fishing practice's

 

of course I dont always 'do as I like'...I don't break laws nor the regulations on the water I am fishing. I don't livebait where is forbidden, I carry a landing net, on places where its barbless only, that what I use. When there is no trolling ....I dont troll. Sometimes nets have to be a certain distance wide, line has to be of minimum of a certain strength, quess what rule obeyer me obeys. if it's fly only, I fly fish, if it's dry fly only thats what I use I hold and always carry my EA license, and permit/permission to be on the water I am fishing.....I could go on...and on. I could stretch the point beyond the realm of fishin' and list a whole rack of eevryday laws and societal rules which I comply with.

 

So perhaps its just that you don't like those who see the world differently from you? that you are especially self satisfied that you are the one doing things properly. (doing as you like) for you are the one who is promoting your way as right, I havn't asked you nor anyone else to do things my way, because I'm not going to worry about what you do. You can carry a matress and full surgical gear to perfprm unhooking on if you wish. In the same way as my friend kills almost all his pike to eat, that's his business.

 

If you had the Law or even a regulation on your side then there would be no argument, you would be right, but you don't so the matter is one of personal consideration, you have brought no evidence to support your case, only your own unsubstantiated beliefs.

Edited by Emma two
"Some people hear their inner voices with such clarity that they live by what they hear, such people go crazy, but they become legends"
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of course I dont always 'do as I like'...I don't break laws nor the regulations on the water I am fishing. I don't livebait where is forbidden, I carry a landing net, on places where its barbless only, that what I use. When there is no trolling ....I dont troll. Sometimes nets have to be a certain distance wide, line has to be of minimum of a certain strength, quess what rule obeyer me obeys. if it's fly only, I fly fish, if it's dry fly only thats what I use I hold and always carry my EA license, and permit/permission to be on the water I am fishing.....I could go on...and on. I could stretch the point beyond the realm of fishin' and list a whole rack of eevryday laws and societal rules which I comply with.

 

So perhaps its just that you don't like those who see the world differently from you? that you are especially self satisfied that you are the one doing things properly. (doing as you like) for you are the one who is promoting your way as right, I havn't asked you nor anyone else to do things my way, because I'm not going to worry about what you do. You can carry a matress and full surgical gear to perfprm unhooking on if you wish. In the same way as my friend kills almost all his pike to eat, that's his business.

 

If you had the Law or even a regulation on your side then there would be no argument, you would be right, but you don't so the matter is one of personal consideration, you have brought no evidence to support your case, only your own unsubstantiated beliefs.

 

Yes i am satisfied, i am doing things the right way, by what local and more impotantly the water that i am fishing rules state i should be doing ie: landing net,unhooking mat, minimum line BS, correct hooks barbed, or barbless, more often or not found on your club licence or day ticket, so i would say for the debate we are having i am right and the Law and regulation are on my side of the argument

 

And while you typing things like "and I refuse to cart an unhooking mat around with me, its bad enough on one club water having to carry a net which I would never use".

you are doing wrong and contridicting yourself with every post

 

If you want evidence look at you club licence and EA licence is that enough substantiantion for your

personal consideration.

Edited by smudger

concentrate for the moment: feel. don't think.

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Yes i am satisfied, i am doing things the right way, by what local and more impotantly the water that i am fishing rules state i should be doing ie: landing net,unhooking mat, minimum line BS, correct hooks barbed, or barbless, more often or not found on your club licence or day ticket, so i would say for the debate we are having I am right and the Law and regulation are on my side of the argument

 

And while you typing things like "and I refuse to cart an unhooking mat around with me, its bad enough on one club water having to carry a net which I would never use".

you are doing wrong and contridicting yourself with every post

 

If you want evidence look at you club licence and EA licence is that enough substantiantion for your

personal consideration.

 

How may times do I have to say 'I don't have a club'?? (I shall say it again, I am not a member of club) perhaps you only see what you want to see, and ignore anything which intereres with your arguments? Not everyone in in a club, you clearly have difficulty with that concept, anglers are not the homogenous group you seem to wish they would be. I dont have a 'club licence' (there is no such thing anyway, a club may issue a membership card etc, but not a licence even if some are pompus enough to call it that).

 

I havn't contradicted myself one bit, never mind every post, I dont carry a mat when roving because I am not obliged to do so, on any water which I fish, its not a rule! Nor it it a rule to actually use the net on the one water stated. It's only a rule (yes daftness) to carry one, and that I got directly from the secretary.

 

As for the EA licence, your submission of that as a variable to support your case makes me think that perhaps you dont fish much at all? You think that it insists or even suggests that I use a mat when mobile fishing on particular waters? Have you even seen an AE licence recently?

 

Perhaps you just out to wind folk up, and like everyone else has done I should just ignore you? for its like talking to the (Herry Enfield) comedy character as he wlks up and down the water side squeaking 'you dont want to do that!'

"Some people hear their inner voices with such clarity that they live by what they hear, such people go crazy, but they become legends"
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