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hang on aminute your saying this

Your statement 'come under the EA's governance' just shows that you have failed to take the time to find out just what the EA's function is in regard to all the country's waters.

 

then the next you come out with this

'im saying that there are aspects of the management of ALL waters which the EA are responsible for.

 

i am lost, and i do not i am wrong, that is what the debate is about, trouble is your flip floping around so much you seem to forgot what you've posted..or am i wrong about that as well

 

you fish free waters not owned by club/'Angling association's............. lucky you

 

Do you think you owe to future generations of anglers to look after the welfare of fish

 

could go on for a fair while like this

 

 

No I havn't forgotten anything which I have posted, nor am I 'flip flopping about', I have a good idea what the EA are about when it comes to fisheries, I said you have failed to understad what the EA are supposed to do and i stick by that wholeheartedly. Thats not a contradiction, quite the opposite, their role is not to go about enforcing laws and rules which do not exist as you seen to think they should or wish they would. They have their work cut out quite enough dealing with legislation which does exist.

 

I don't fish for free...but not all waters are under the control of 'clubs'...(there you go again banging on about clubs!) where on earth do you conjure these things up from? we pay the nation through the park to fish their waters, we pay the town council to fish their waters...it's not a difficult concept to grasp.

 

The 'future generations and welfare of fish' is a melodramatic statement, for you havn't brought any evidence to show my practice is harmful to fish. I know for certain the past generations treated their fish in a wholly different way to the way we do now.

 

The boat landing at my local lake in the 60s had a gibbet upon which to hang caught pike, some were taken as greenhouse manure, gaffs were widely used. And gags were for those who cared about welfare. by the 70s there was a movement to deal with pike in a better way, and we were chastised for holding fish vertically, (the standard way we see them being held now) as it was 'un natural for a pike which spends it's lifetime in the horizontal position to be held that way, then we were told not to but them in keepnets then not to use barbed hooks...some one in here said that for them the ultimate priority was fish welfare, well I challenge that strongly, if one is truly concerned with the fish's welfare above all else then cease from angling altogether, for that is the only way one can be truly sure of not harming them. I may not always carry an unhooking mat but I always carry a priest, believeing, and experience has shown it the only humane way to proceed.

 

In summary, you tried to argue that it is the law that anglers must carry a mat, you have failed, its isn't. Now you seem to be branching out, discrediting my style with rudeness, 'flip flopping' grasping fore some credibility which is not forthcoming.

 

I should ask at this point your age, I had a similar debate in another forum a while ago and it turned out that the other party was a child, it sounded alot like this.

Edited by Emma two
"Some people hear their inner voices with such clarity that they live by what they hear, such people go crazy, but they become legends"
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Back to the earlier mention of missed strikes on lures - those will happen on occasion even to the best of anglers but quite often it is down to dull hooks. A good hook sharpener is your friend.

 

If you drag the hook point across your thumbnail and it slides, the hook is much too dull. The point should dig in immediately just from the weight of the hook.

" My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!" - Harry Truman, 33rd US President

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Back to the earlier mention of missed strikes on lures - those will happen on occasion even to the best of anglers but quite often it is down to dull hooks. A good hook sharpener is your friend.

 

If you drag the hook point across your thumbnail and it slides, the hook is much too dull. The point should dig in immediately just from the weight of the hook.

 

 

Yes and it's worth noting that lure hooks don't always come from the factory/shop with good sharp hook points, test 'em before use and if need be sharpen or change 'em. On the same lines it's worth checking the split rings on a new lure too, some are quite rubbishy and need replaced. Its a good idea to carry spare hooks and split rings, as well as the hook sharpner.

Edited by Emma two
"Some people hear their inner voices with such clarity that they live by what they hear, such people go crazy, but they become legends"
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No I havn't forgotten anything which I have posted, nor am I 'flip flopping about', I have a good idea what the EA are about when it comes to fisheries, I said you have failed to understad what the EA are supposed to do and i stick by that wholeheartedly. Thats not a contradiction, quite the opposite, their role is not to go about enforcing laws and rules which do not exist as you seen to think they should or wish they would. They have their work cut out quite enough dealing with legislation which does exist.

 

I don't fish for free...but not all waters are under the control of 'clubs'...(there you go again banging on about clubs!) where on earth do you conjure these things up from? we pay the nation through the park to fish their waters, we pay the town council to fish their waters...it's not a difficult concept to grasp.

 

The 'future generations and welfare of fish' is a melodramatic statement, for you havn't brought any evidence to show my practice is harmful to fish. I know for certain the past generations treated their fish in a wholly different way to the way we do now.

 

The boat landing at my local lake in the 60s had a gibbet upon which to hang caught pike, some were taken as greenhouse manure, gaffs were widely used. And gags were for those who cared about welfare. by the 70s there was a movement to deal with pike in a better way, and we were chastised for holding fish vertically, (the standard way we see them being held now) as it was 'un natural for a pike which spends it's lifetime in the horizontal position to be held that way, then we were told not to but them in keepnets then not to use barbed hooks...some one in here said that for them the ultimate priority was fish welfare, well I challenge that strongly, if one is truly concerned with the fish's welfare above all else then cease from angling altogether, for that is the only way one can be truly sure of not harming them. I may not always carry an unhooking mat but I always carry a priest, believeing, and experience has shown it the only humane way to proceed.

 

In summary, you tried to argue that it is the law that anglers must carry a mat, you have failed, its isn't. Now you seem to be branching out, discrediting my style with rudeness, 'flip flopping' grasping fore some credibility which is not forthcoming.

 

I should ask at this point your age, I had a similar debate in another forum a while ago and it turned out that the other party was a child, it sounded alot like this.

 

 

I understand that all waters are not under the control of clubs,i also understand that some, if not all (i stand to be corrected )the lake district lakes and some tarns are free fishing, seeing that you state you fish "some " of these lake and tarns i took it you fished for free, as you do not belong to any clubs or Associations

had you pointed this out we could avoided most of the posts we've posted,

 

i've never argued that its laws to carry a unhooking mat,only if and if you belonged to a club/association than more often than not you have to have a unhooking mat.The EA licence has local byelaws and national byelaws which should also be adhered to.

 

The 'future generations and welfare of fish' is a melodramatic statement, for you havn't brought any evidence to show my practice is harmful to fish. I know for certain the past generations treated their fish in a wholly different way to the way we do now.

 

By calling the "future generations and welfare of fish" statement melodramatic i think that is enough evidence.That is the reason rules and regulations were put in place by club/associations,and the EA

do you think the pike population would still be in the state it is today if killed every pike we all caught

like they did in the 60s 70s,that why gaffs were outlawed and gags are frowned upon now.You seem to building your case on the fact that you do not want to carry a unhooking mat,just because you find it inconvienant whilst shore fishing (unless static deadbaiting)if you think you should for deadbaiting, why not for stalking/lure fishing form the shore, fishing for the same fish, different method, your argument is some what flawed wouldn't you say??

 

"I always carry a priest, believeing, and experience has shown it the only humane way to proceed"

Could you elaborate on the above statement, are you now saying that you dispatch every pike caught??why carry a priest?

Child no, 46

concentrate for the moment: feel. don't think.

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Smudger

I don't really want to get embroiled in an argument over unhooking mats but one of the things you said intrigued me.

You said that you always wash the slime off the unhooking mat after use. I thought that the stated point of the mat was to avoid removing slime from the fish. If not, what is the difference between the mat and any other soft (ish) surface, like grass for instance.

Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

 

 

 

http://www.safetypublishing.co.uk/
http://www.safetypublishing.ie/

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Smudger

I don't really want to get embroiled in an argument over unhooking mats but one of the things you said intrigued me.

You said that you always wash the slime off the unhooking mat after use. I thought that the stated point of the mat was to avoid removing slime from the fish. If not, what is the difference between the mat and any other soft (ish) surface, like grass for instance.

 

Its impossible to not remove any slime from a fish, unless you unhook in the water,which as you should know is not alway practical or posible depending on the venue fished, high banks etc.

 

My local canal has low banks where i can unhook in the water and do not need a mat or a landing net,

 

It also has high banks where i can not get easy acces to the fish, so i use a landing net and mat.Plus my Association states i have to carry a mat and other rules for pike fishing be it deadbaiting or on the lure, it is not my wish to have to appear in front of the commitee or be labelled a uncaring lure/pike angler, we have enough problems with EEs taking fish for the pot(not just pike) i do not wish to add to a declining pike population by returning fish covered in dirt etc so i try to my bit, not just for me but for future generations of anglers......others it seems are somewhat more self centered.

concentrate for the moment: feel. don't think.

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Its impossible to not remove any slime from a fish, unless you unhook in the water,which as you should know is not alway practical or posible depending on the venue fished, high banks etc.

 

My local canal has low banks where i can unhook in the water and do not need a mat or a landing net,

 

It also has high banks where i can not get easy acces to the fish, so i use a landing net and mat.Plus my Association states i have to carry a mat and other rules for pike fishing be it deadbaiting or on the lure, it is not my wish to have to appear in front of the commitee or be labelled a uncaring lure/pike angler, we have enough problems with EEs taking fish for the pot(not just pike) i do not wish to add to a declining pike population by returning fish covered in dirt etc so i try to my bit, not just for me but for future generations of anglers......others it seems are somewhat more self centered.

 

A lot of the (mainly) UK owned big carp fisheries here in France insist that you use unhooking mats that they provide. I have seen some. Filthy, encrusted with dried slime and assorted gunk and a health hazard to all living things in the vicinity.

It doesn't affect me personally because I don't fish the big carp lakes. I don't generally use an unhooking mat either, preferring to lay my fish onto clean grass. The only exception is when I fish an area where the banks are sandy or gravelly with an absence of grass (what unhooking mats were originally developed for ;) )

Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

 

 

 

http://www.safetypublishing.co.uk/
http://www.safetypublishing.ie/

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Sportsman,

 

A well thought out comment. I think I probably don't have a clue about "risk/benefit" in the circumstances you point out. Further, I think CARP may have two distinct different roles in England. One, "specimen" carp; two, wild carp through management or mismanagement. I know, even in the 1970's it was becoming difficult to conger up the notion you were fishing for "wild" creatures on some of the paylakes I visited over there.

 

I always try to use an unhooking mat in the hot of the summer when fishing in urban settings whilst fising from a slab of 150+ degree cement.

 

Phone

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I wonder if it's the time of year, but on my travels around the angling forums, I see that three others have ongoing 'heated debates' about the use of unhooking mats.

Strange.

 

John.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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Seems as if people have different opinions of unhooking mats.I have made my postion clear of how i feel and won't be passing any more comment on it, good luck and good fishing to all.

concentrate for the moment: feel. don't think.

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