IS THIS WHAT YOU VOTED FOR

[captain cojones]

no problem ,were off camping tomorrow so i will write another bit on my return ,but to save you the hardship of typing i will put in yes or no conclusions so all you have to do is highlight the appropriate response

 

questions such as

 

(weve already established spain does treat injuries in certain circumstances not the "nada" to any treatment you stated )

 

questions such as .....

 

spain does not treat non contributors in the health system you use (insurance?) that means under no circumstances can poor people be treated that have neither money or insurance IE your letting people die? (this also must include non spaniards as like us your shackled by the human rights laws even johnie foreigner cannot be deliberately mal treated)

 

Yes it never treats anyone who hasn't put into the system (excepting the "emergency" type highlighted by someone else)

No? perhaps its not as tight as i thought

 

ofcourse as a warning (even being hindered by the lack of spanish i have) i will find circumstances of the opposite i'm sure if you say yes!

saying no ofcourse means the system you use is open to fraud despite your protestation it never happens

 

then i'm sure we can discus "benefits" for immigrants

 

is your border as secure as you think?

 

what ID do you need to get spanish ID (from a non spanish sense)

 

is carrying ID compulsory and what happens if you cannot produce it?

 

what do police actually check when they look at your ID?

 

 

have fun

 

as you can see the weathers declining the moment poor me goes outside ,expect snow by sunday!

 

Still a very confusing post, most i think i have already covered though.

 

Emergencies are treated no matter who or what you are.

 

Non emergencies are treated if the person is covered by the social security rules. Spanish poor people are also looked after, but using a different criteria.

 

Non emergencies for people not covered by the social security rules are treated and charged.

Poor foreigners are pretty much told to go away.

 

The social security rules include the old E111, or other "E" documents that transfer health care, including the transfer of health entitlements for pensioners, under the old E121.

 

Immigrants do not get state benefits unless they have contributed to the system. All time that a person is legally working is registered, as are all social security contributions. The document that records this is known as a "Vida Laboral".

 

There is officially a chance for a foreigner to get a pension if he hasn't contributed, also an invalidity payment, but they have lots of conditions and are also means tested. I have never met one single foreigner who has got it.

 

The ID you need to get a Spanish I.D (Nationality) depends on your origin and personal circumstances. It varies for each individual.

 

As an example for you. A British person needs 10 years legal, working residence before he can even apply.......For it.

 

I.D compulsory? That depends who you are talking about. A Spanish national has to have an ID card by 14 years old, that is compulsory. Carrying it is not strictly illegal, although highly inconvenient as if you are stopped and asked for it, they can hold you until they are satisfied you are who you say you are.

 

They can check firstly on your photo likeness, but the cards are (smart) and carry many security features and chips, which are easily checked by the police. So much so in fact that we dont need a passport to travel around Europe. The card is sufficient ID. Even for travel to Britain.

 

Foreigners need to take out a foreigners "residencia". For British because they are EU members a formality.

 

Thanks for the "warning"......lol Read away, although be aware that a lot of the British info sites are written repeating old information, and worthless.

 

Forgot to say, have a good time. Im working as a presenter at a festival till Sunday night. Should be mental......lol

Edited March 28, 2012 by captain cojones

[chesters1]

i will get back to you but a couple of points

 

"Immigrants do not get state benefits unless they have contributed to the system. All time that a person is legally working is registered, as are all social security contributions. The document that records this is known as a "Vida Laboral"."

 

we were told this was the case here "immigrants do not get benefits" the trouble was they did but it wasnt called "benefits" and the whole system was run remotely from the DWP and hidden under the wing of immigration ,perhaps spain operates a similar undercover system after all you cannot starve "visitors" to death so someone's feeding them and you cannot put them on the streets either they go to a secure unit for deportation or they are housed somewhere ,illegal ones are just that but someone is feeding them and housing them or you would be tripping over the bodies

 

now spain is pretty canny rather than kick out the elusive johny foreigner they (as we do ) stop all the fuss by having amnesties :

 

"The Spanish government recently granted legal amnesty to some 750,000 undocumented immigrants, who could prove they had a work contract and had lived in the country for more than six months, a decision that has proved rather controversial. "*

 

this old report is all i can find tonight but i guess yet again spain is infact little different to the uk

 

http://arxxiduc.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/d...rants-to-spain/

 

unfortunately as i said i'm not fluent in foreign so my efforts will be spasmodic disproving you

 

the word "undocumented" ofcourse means you tight ID culture probably never trapped them

 

you

"As an example for you. A British person needs 10 years legal, working residence before he can even apply.......For it"

 

*whereas undocumented foreigners got it after 6 months

 

 

"Forgot to say, have a good time. Im working as a presenter at a festival till Sunday night. Should be mental......lol "

 

cheers you and your throwing donkeys of towers ,what fun you have ,mine will consist of abusing foreigners hiding in folkestone warren and standing on the shore shaking my fist at france

teas finished now to load the car for the morning

 

 

hmmm spain seems to be a master at hiding immigrants

 

"The Socialist government held an amnesty for 600,000 illegal immigrants in 2005, granting them visas if they could show proof of employment. And like left-of-center politicians elsewhere in Europe, Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero welcomed immigration as a way to both to make Spain more tolerant and diverse, and to ensure an aging population would be able to continue to afford its social security system."

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/02/23/...E61M02920100223

Edited March 28, 2012 by chesters1

[captain cojones]

i will get back to you but a couple of points

 

"Immigrants do not get state benefits unless they have contributed to the system. All time that a person is legally working is registered, as are all social security contributions. The document that records this is known as a "Vida Laboral"."

 

we were told this was the case here "immigrants do not get benefits" the trouble was they did but it wasnt called "benefits" and the whole system was run remotely from the DWP and hidden under the wing of immigration ,perhaps spain operates a similar undercover system after all you cannot starve "visitors" to death so someone's feeding them and you cannot put them on the streets either they go to a secure unit for deportation or they are housed somewhere ,illegal ones are just that but someone is feeding them and housing them or you would be tripping over the bodies

 

now spain is pretty canny rather than kick out the elusive johny foreigner they (as we do ) stop all the fuss by having amnesties :

 

"The Spanish government recently granted legal amnesty to some 750,000 undocumented immigrants, who could prove they had a work contract and had lived in the country for more than six months, a decision that has proved rather controversial. "*

 

this old report is all i can find tonight but i guess yet again spain is infact little different to the uk

 

http://arxxiduc.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/d...rants-to-spain/

 

unfortunately as i said i'm not fluent in foreign so my efforts will be spasmodic disproving you

 

the word "undocumented" ofcourse means you tight ID culture probably never trapped them

 

you

"As an example for you. A British person needs 10 years legal, working residence before he can even apply.......For it"

 

*whereas undocumented foreigners got it after 6 months

 

 

"Forgot to say, have a good time. Im working as a presenter at a festival till Sunday night. Should be mental......lol "

 

cheers you and your throwing donkeys of towers ,what fun you have ,mine will consist of abusing foreigners hiding in folkestone warren and standing on the shore shaking my fist at france

teas finished now to load the car for the morning

 

 

AS i said your references would be wrong.

 

The immigrants don't get anything.

There is a church organisation that helps them called "Caritas", but from the state....Nothing.

 

The old reference to "undocumented immigrants who had a work contract" is false. You cannot get a work contract without a foreigners ID number. It is simply not possible, as it is impossible to pay tax on your "work contract" without one, you also cant get an electricity account, buy a car, or anything else without it either.

 

The partial amnesty you referred to was over a decade ago........Just a bit dated It was actually quite successful as it resulted in a social security surplus.

 

Your quote of "undocumented foreigners getting it after only 6 months" is also completely, totally wrong.

 

What the immigrants get, is not Nationality, but a residents permit. Two totally different things! A residence certificate has ZERO rights as a travel document, it just gives a right to reside.

 

They have to be reapplied for on a regular basis, sometimes every 6 months. So your idea that because they have that document they can thereby travel to other countries such as the UK for instance, is again TOTALLY incorrect.

 

As i said, no hard feelings, but you will not get much accurate info from Brit sites.

 

P.S the donkey stuff finished decades ago. :lol:

[chesters1]

"No country has run more legalization programs than Spain, which has carried out six since 1985. As recently as a decade ago, immigrants made up less than 2 percent of the population. Now they are more than 10 percent. About 40 percent come from eastern and northern Europe; 38 percent come from Latin America; and 20 percent from Africa"

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/world/eu...?pagewanted=all

 

i never said they could travel its a case of sweeping the mess under the carpet.you cant on one hand state immigrants get F all then make them all legal so they do

 

 

HMMMM how do we get rid of the immigrant problem? simple ....make them appear to be something else

 

OH if you've forgotten what they look like heres some ,and like buying a different car i bet you now see lots everywhere

 

 

ps it isnt the local boat fishing club

Edited March 28, 2012 by chesters1

[captain cojones]

"

 

i never said they could travel its a case of sweeping the mess under the carpet.you cant on one hand state immigrants get F all then make them all legal so they do

 

 

But they dont. Even legalised immigrants only get benefits if they have paid in!

 

Even then they can only get an amount which is relation to the level of their contributions.

 

We need immigrants, they provide money to pay pensions, however with the crisis many of the South Americans have returned to their countries of origin.

Their jobs have been taken by Spanish, in the main people who worked in the construction sector.

 

Eastern Europeans...the biggest country of source was Romania, however even though they are another EU country, they were banned from coming to Spain to work a while ago.

 

The ban goes on till the end of 2012 and is revisable.

The only exception is if it is an "essential worker" that has a work contract agreed before his arrival.

 

The number of people coming from Africa has dropped dramatically since that article dated 2007 you put up.

 

Mainly due to new agreements with certain African governments, and to a big part the anti drug smuggler/ people smuggler radar known as "SIVE2 that goes from the Portuguese border, up to Valencia.

 

The setting up of the cross border EU "FRONTEX" organisation has also helped a great deal.

[chesters1]

OH we need them like you need 40% youth unemployment?

 

surely if you can prove youve been working then technically youve been taxed ,perhaps the corruption is with the employer and johny foreigner duped ?

 

we need immigration is a bit like bugger were overun with illegals lets pretend we want them ,i'm sure (exactly the same here) they drive the wages down for the legal workers which isnt good for those working legally ,the governments "welcome" is driving down wages (as it has here) which drives down the tax hike so everyone looses

Edited March 28, 2012 by chesters1

[captain cojones]

OH we need them like you need 40% youth unemployment?

 

 

If you read my post again, you will see i said that said "most have now returned home".....And......"the biggest source of Eastern European immigrants cant now come"..........etc etc :rolleyes:

 

The high youth employment is for a wide range of reasons, certainly not for the fault of long gone immigrants.

[chesters1]

errr according to this data immigration still vastly outnumbers emigration ,they cant all be pot bellied geezers with knotted hankies on their heads retiring to the sun

http://www.ine.es/en/prensa/np538_en.pdf

 

whoops its prospective in 2009 forget that

 

my head hurts bloody spanish hiding all their figures in spanish

 

anyway this old data (5 months old ) shows spanish immigration still above most other countries ,so i dont know where your "most have now returned home" bit comes in ,perhaps "most have now returned home" is really "hidden amongst you"?

 

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistic...tion_statistics

 

surprisingly the non EU immigrants outnumber even ours

Edited March 28, 2012 by chesters1