IS THIS WHAT YOU VOTED FOR

[corydoras]

your trying to cure a disease thats already gone everywhere and is incurable except by lopping of the limbs (the ports and any other entry points) and even then its past saving

 

Cory your a travelling man how could you prove you are you (enough for the card to be worth its use and completely trust-able as the government think it will be) to get the ID card?

 

if you had to present yourself tomorrow at a card making place what proof could you take that illegal immigrants or the undeserving cannot?

 

your DNA yes thats fairly safe but is the database going to be comparing millions of samples of DNA everytime a card is asked for? or just the barcode,photo HMMMM have you seen some photo's ? ,fingerprints fairly good but not perfect as our fingerprint "points" we use are half that used in american finger prints so open to doubt ,will the database be comparing the prints ? who's the cards or the holder of the card?

 

will every card reader have its own database internally (impossible) or will it have to transmit and receive to a remote one that's completely open to abuse by a 14 year old chinese kid with spare time on his hands ?

 

you see the card itself is flawed and the system that runs it is thus its all pointless so save money and get your vigilantes roughing up foreign looking people until they run out then start on bald people or people with tashes i'm sure some are crooks

The thing that is is your arguments. Mr Logical Fallacy rides again.

 

will every card reader have its own database internally (impossible) or will it have to transmit and receive to a remote one that's completely open to abuse by a 14 year old chinese kid with spare time on his hands ?

The answer is neither. You present a ridiculous false dichotomy as an argument, then you think you've won some points by destroying your own ridiculous arguments.

 

So we close all the ports. That should really help with the unemployment in places like Southampton, Felixstowe, Dover. Shutting down all the airports would no doubt do wonders for our economy too. I'm not an advocate of any kind of ID card system, biometric or otherwise, but i fail to see how it is beyond the whit of us to come up with one, given that other countries can have them.

 

Most of my travelling was done on the old red British Seamans ID Card. Not an easy document to forge, and you could only get a real one by presenting in person at a Board of Trade Regional Offfice (showing my age now) .

[captain cojones]

The thing that is is your arguments. Mr Logical Fallacy rides again.

 

The answer is neither. You present a ridiculous false dichotomy as an argument, then you think you've won some points by destroying your own ridiculous arguments.

 

So we close all the ports. That should really help with the unemployment in places like Southampton, Felixstowe, Dover. Shutting down all the airports would no doubt do wonders for our economy too. I'm not an advocate of any kind of ID card system, biometric or otherwise, but i fail to see how it is beyond the whit of us to come up with one, given that other countries can have them.

 

Most of my travelling was done on the old red British Seamans ID Card. Not an easy document to forge, and you could only get a real one by presenting in person at a Board of Trade Regional Offfice (showing my age now) .

 

We have had this argument on here before.

 

As you say (and i agree 100% with you) it works in other countries, but for some reason it wouldn't in Britain?? Why??

 

Because of the British reluctance to anything new, is the probable answer.

[corydoras]

Because of the British reluctance to anything new, is the probable answer.

Yup. It's a lot easier just to stick your head up your ass, sit on your hands and hope it all goes away.

[rob.imk2]

Obviously none of the parties are much good keeping us all happy my way of thinking is that no MP would be allowed to have any other jobs or business interests then maybe they would concentrate on the countries problems.I doubt many of them would run for office though

[Andrew]

Obviously none of the parties are much good keeping us all happy my way of thinking is that no MP would be allowed to have any other jobs or business interests then maybe they would concentrate on the countries problems.I doubt many of them would run for office though

 

 

Exactly mate. If they say they can honestly say their standing in government does not encourage further interest in any business the PM is connected with, then they are telling bloody lies. ( whats new )

 

Look at good old Tony B'Liar, making millions upon millions on the back of his run in office. He has used his influences to make money, allegedly, oh yeah as if he would not use is connections, !

 

Just like the Americans, you have to born and bred an all American boy to run for president, hey just imagine Rambo for president, !!!!!!

[chesters1]

The thing that is is your arguments. Mr Logical Fallacy rides again.

 

The answer is neither. You present a ridiculous false dichotomy as an argument, then you think you've won some points by destroying your own ridiculous arguments.

 

So we close all the ports. That should really help with the unemployment in places like Southampton, Felixstowe, Dover. Shutting down all the airports would no doubt do wonders for our economy too. I'm not an advocate of any kind of ID card system, biometric or otherwise, but i fail to see how it is beyond the whit of us to come up with one, given that other countries can have them.

 

Most of my travelling was done on the old red British Seamans ID Card. Not an easy document to forge, and you could only get a real one by presenting in person at a Board of Trade Regional Offfice (showing my age now) .

 

Cory your not seeing the point which is to get this new ID you have to present ID thats already being used to fraudulently abuse the system now!

 

as i pointed out its possible starting now by "tagging" new borne kids as giving them an ID card which is based on their DNA but to even upgrade the picture you would have to once again do a DNA test to make sure the card and the cards owner is the same person so theres a weeks? lag between one and the other .thats just to add a picture!

 

 

Then how could visitors (illegal or legal) be proven to be who they say they are? or even those not linked at birth us lot?

 

you end up with a good foolproof scheme for ethnic brits but when it comes to a huge part of the abuse from foreigners its wide open because the system falls apart .

 

if the government is going to put all its eggs in one basket (which is using the ID card as lone proof of "you" or your entitlement) then hopefully the basket is extremely secure and going historically by government IT programs it will never be.I'm not against an ID card but it will end up just as easy to get around like all the rest of the forms of proof you is you we already have and we will end up with something that will cost more money than it saves the general government idea gone wrong.

the only people that will profit is the cheats and the companies that produce the cards as always.

i didnt mean close the ports as in closing them but to anyone other than those that should be here not an open door for every bit of filth that comes through it at present who chuck their countries ID in the sea or under a rock in france because they know full well once their foots on our soil the chances of being deported is as rare as hens teeth

If you turn up at a port without ID your put back on the boat until you die of old age ,france wont allow them back in so why should we?

 

the idea of all this comes because the government has found its feeding clothing and housing 2? million foreigners they themselves forbid to work ,its madness spend the money not on a useless card but in plane fares de[porting the silly ones who didnt throw their ID away then get to work shifting the rest.

make every traveller coming to our shore get a visa and make sure its extremely tough to get it then take a look how OZ deals with the riff raff and spend some money making the ports secure! bloody foreigners had a harder time getting here in henry the 8ths day than now

 

probably ID cards dont work in other countries at all ,are they just looked at (having used a few overseas destinations looking is far different from the glance they got) so most probably their system is just as much abused as ours the difference is today do they really care when anyone that bothers them is no doubt on their way here and out of their hair

 

 

when your ID is checked in spain i bet all that happens is the copper just looks at it compairing a picture to you ,does he wrestle you to the ground take a swap then hold you for a week to check the DNA is the same?...... thought not.in britain will it be mandatory to carry it? or will you have a seven day wonder to produce it and scarper?

 

its quite easy to poo poo my fallacy but for once make an effort to disprove my points

 

again i ask if you had to present yourself tomorrow to get an ID card what proof of who you are could you take that couldn't be forged?

 

too difficult? then using anything you posses isnt foolproof then anyone can be you ,if your not already

 

if you except that then thats just the detail ,we then need a secure way of finding if your card hasnt been used anywhere else (to see if youve been cloned) and instantly tell in some manner if your card matches you both in your hand and on the database and then just to make the scheme work the database has to be so secure its not open to fraud by internal or external influences ,if one card bounces its useless! i cant see a traffic warden or dustman who may then have the power to demand it having nothing but his eyes to see if its a real card or a forgery

Edited March 26, 2012 by chesters1

[Andrew]

Ah but Chesters, there's the human rights crap conected with the ID cards. !

The Human Rights act was so enthusiastically pushed by Bliar whilst his greedy wife was setting up Matrix Chambers - a firm of Lawyers who specialise in human rights cases?

 

Personally i'm all for a better entry restictions in our ports, NO ID, out you go, simple as that.

[chesters1]

unfortunately once they are on our soil you cannot send them anywhere if you dont know where to send them!

perhaps several offshore installations where passengers are interviewed those that fail are put back on the ship when it goes back past in the opposite direction ,as for Cory's destruction of the ports i have no doubt even more jobs could be made dealing with our naughty friends.Once the ships are full of people not paying a penny for their keep and toing and frowing for weeks perhaps the boat companies will employ more people to do the interviewing first before they get on the boat! all lorries could be searched not just randomly its obviously not a big enough fine to be worth searching now!

 

bit of a problem with aircraft but all illegals need to do is simply hijack the plane and they're given everything they want!

 

the worst problems seem to be in the past but i can bet i will see a straggle of foreign people on the M20 and definitely some at maidstone services as there always is

Edited March 26, 2012 by chesters1

[Andrew]

unfortunately once they are on our soil you cannot send them anywhere if you dont know where to send them!

 

 

Simple, check EVERY ID and passport onboard any ship docked in our ports. That way they dont get to step on this green and pleasant land.

[chesters1]

a ship doesn't have to be in port to be in our country popping over lines in the sea is good enough ,we already scrutinise many people in france on french soild but the Eurostar train is open to abuse and all people do is change ports to where the scrutiny is less or non existant

if our foreign chums find dover is a little difficult they will come via holland or ireland etc

 

the government are looking at the huge amount of drain the benefits system is using and coming out with nonsense that some card will solve it all but most is down to the government(S) inability to stop a great deal of the drain by stamping down on immigration so they will and do start on the soft targets like the disabled and long term jobless first and once the headlines have gone quiet forget the hard part

Edited March 26, 2012 by chesters1