IS THIS WHAT YOU VOTED FOR

[Ken L]

I'd close Remploy too. The whole thing is patronising, a relic from the days when we shut disabled people way from the public view. Disabled people should be integrated into society and should be working with the rest of us, not shuffled off into some building at the back of an industrial estate making zimmer frames.

 

 

I know people and have family members who used Remploy.

These were people with severe mental and physical disabilities (in one case one congenital and in the other acquired) and they were doing very simple repetitive tasks like potting plants, packaging etc.

It provided them with a little dignity because they were able to work and earn. It provided structure to their lives that otherwise wouldn't have been there. It provided respite for their family members who would otherwise wouldn't have had a break. It provided social interaction and an oppertunity to meet new people. It pushed their physical and mental skills and helped them to develop.

 

Remploy comes cheap.

 

The family member with the acquired brain injury continued to recover and is now in full time work but the chap with the severe learning disability now sits at home all day tying up two other adults in the provision of full time care.

 

Not everyone can be integrated into a normal workplace.

[Andrew]

Well said Ken.

 

I know of a half dozen disabled employee's who were at our local center, everyone of them were as happy as can be, learning skills, learning to interact with people, enjoying life, earning their own brass. They were also very happy when the OPEN days to the PUBLIC came around.

 

The doors would be open to the general public, all manner of products were for sale, from simple plants to chairs, tables, etc, all made by the disabled employee's.

 

But never mind, the government know what disabled people want. Strange when the closure was announced, the Remploy workers giving interviews were devastated because of the closure, some nearly in tears because of it. I doubt if they were contacted by the MP who said they ( disabled employee's at Remploy ) needed training.

 

Yet another closure for vulnerable people to gain help, respect in the community, to earn a wage, to learn life skills, to pay taxes, instead of claiming further benefits, etc,.Another vunerable section of the community hit by the cuts. OAPs and the poor families, yet the rich higher earners are going to be better off, money to money as the saying goes.

 

One term PM springs to mind , but who will take over ?

 

Nice one Mr Cameron and co.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Andrew

[Ken L]

Disabled people should be integrated into society and should be working with the rest of us

 

Just to address that last point. As some members know, I work in the public sector and while it used to be a safe haven for people with certain types of disability because of the past tendency of public sector employers to bend over backwards to help and accommodate people, that is certainly no longer the case.

 

Repetitive backroom jobs with no customer facing suited people with difficulties like Asperger's. Large open plan offices where everything is on one level are ideal for wheelchair users etc - it's easy enough to see how large numbers of disabled people can engage in productive work in local or national government. I even had a profoundly deaf girl working for me at one point and with certain accommodations and the occasional use of a BSL interpreter, she was able to do a perfectly adequate job.

 

Unfortunately, none of this is the case any longer and people with health problems are being dismissed left right and center - largely thanks to reforms aimed at greater efficiency.

 

To give some indication of what is now happening, a guy was sacked a couple of years ago on the basis of poor attendance. Now he wasn't the sharpest tool in the draw and had spent several short stints admitted to psychiatric hospitals over the years. He also had diabetes which was poorly controlled and had had three heart attacks in as many years, despite only being in his late 30's or early 40's. At the point where his contract was terminated (due to poor attendance) he had had only eight days sick absence in the preceding 18 months.

If this is how a major government employer (ironically one charged with the task of integrating disabled people into the workplace) acts then what chance do people who are less able have of finding work in the private sector ?

[chesters1]

In France even the traffic wardens have a pistol on their hip. The are called the "Police Municipal" but basically they are traffic wardens with guns.

 

what are they afraid of ? germans? its a pity they didnt use them more and spain looked the other way in ww2 ,why would brits stare at guns well blacks might stare to see what they look like without the serial number ground off

 

 

"There were separate queues for EU and non EU people, they presented their papers (which i had helped them with first) Big smiles from the police.....They have to go back after 5-6 days to collect their " ID number" after they have checked up on them"

 

i just wonder what these people look at when they examine the paperwork before you go back to collect your ID ?

 

passports?

driving licence ?

utility bill?

inside leg measurement?

theres more foreign people in spain than there is here? and i can bet my last back tooth on paper they get everything the spanish do

 

i'm sure those like this will have even the most obvious non resident look like the real thing if they have the dosh to employ them just like the thousands of people that do the same here

http://www.spain-visas.com/formalitys.php

 

believe me if spain was so tough half of south america wouldn't be living there making your youth employment twice ours add to that the dregs of north africa and i suspect your system is only hard (as ours is) on the most deserving whilst the scum get the lot plus afters

even france (britains front door) cannot shift their immigrants to here fast enough so is tightening up its system ,"tightening up" means its not working just like ours

ours is ifficult because we dont have a history of constant interference of foreign powers who keep a tight rein on their "subjects" spain probably more than most from despots that run the place with iron fists ,the people simply obey anyone with a gun

our freedoms are what attracts foreigners ,its also the thing that bridles us ,we can have a police state or close the frontiers to all immigration ,sort out the problems here then only let in enough immigrants to balance emigration stopping the drain on services we see already happening

 

at the moment johnie foreigner knows ful;l well once his feet are on our shores the risk of getting sent back out is extremely remote ,no ID card on earth will stop that only extremely tough border control will stop it and huge numbers of officials manning them ,what you save putting up ALI or Mustapher for a decade or so until their given leave to remain can be better spent keeping them out

then stop letting EU migrants in with a cursery glance you can bet a fair number will be "EU" residents purely because the country they entered from non EU countries quickly gave the status on the promise they left the country as quickly as possible to live in another one

Edited March 27, 2012 by chesters1

[Andrew]

Just to address that last point. As some members know, I work in the public sector and while it used to be a safe haven for people with certain types of disability because of the past tendency of public sector employers to bend over backwards to help and accommodate people, that is certainly no longer the case.

 

Repetitive backroom jobs with no customer facing suited people with difficulties like Asperger's. Large open plan offices where everything is on one level are ideal for wheelchair users etc - it's easy enough to see how large numbers of disabled people can engage in productive work in local or national government. I even had a profoundly deaf girl working for me at one point and with certain accommodations and the occasional use of a BSL interpreter, she was able to do a perfectly adequate job.

 

Unfortunately, none of this is the case any longer and people with health problems are being dismissed left right and center - largely thanks to reforms aimed at greater efficiency.

 

To give some indication of what is now happening, a guy was sacked a couple of years ago on the basis of poor attendance. Now he wasn't the sharpest tool in the draw and had spent several short stints admitted to psychiatric hospitals over the years. He also had diabetes which was poorly controlled and had had three heart attacks in as many years, despite only being in his late 30's or early 40's. At the point where his contract was terminated (due to poor attendance) he had had only eight days sick absence in the preceding 18 months.

If this is how a major government employer (ironically one charged with the task of integrating disabled people into the workplace) acts then what chance do people who are less able have of finding work in the private sector ?

 

 

Sad very sad.

My wife works within the NHS, there was a young female in the place she worked as a domestic, like that chap you mentioned, she has learning difficulties, not the brightest, but a bloody good worker. She too had some issues with hospitals etc, yeah, guess what, sacked because of her sickness record.

 

And people think public sector works have a nice cushy job, and a 110% safe job, load of ****s

[captain cojones]

what are they afraid of ? germans? its a pity they didnt use them more and spain looked the other way in ww2 ,why would brits stare at guns well blacks might stare to see what they look like without the serial number ground off

 

 

"There were separate queues for EU and non EU people, they presented their papers (which i had helped them with first) Big smiles from the police.....They have to go back after 5-6 days to collect their " ID number" after they have checked up on them"

 

i just wonder what these people look at when they examine the paperwork before you go back to collect your ID ?

 

passports?

driving licence ?

utility bill?

inside leg measurement?

theres more foreign people in spain than there is here? and i can bet my last back tooth on paper they get everything the spanish do

 

i'm sure those like this will have even the most obvious non resident look like the real thing if they have the dosh to employ them just like the thousands of people that do the same here

http://www.spain-visas.com/formalitys.php

 

believe me if spain was so tough half of south america wouldn't be living there making your youth employment twice ours add to that the dregs of north africa and i suspect your system is only hard (as ours is) on the most deserving whilst the scum get the lot plus afters

even france (britains front door) cannot shift their immigrants to here fast enough so is tightening up its system ,"tightening up" means its not working just like ours

ours is ifficult because we dont have a history of constant interference of foreign powers who keep a tight rein on their "subjects" spain probably more than most from despots that run the place with iron fists ,the people simply obey anyone with a gun

our freedoms are what attracts foreigners ,its also the thing that bridles us ,we can have a police state or close the frontiers to all immigration ,sort out the problems here then only let in enough immigrants to balance emigration stopping the drain on services we see already happening

 

at the moment johnie foreigner knows ful;l well once his feet are on our shores the risk of getting sent back out is extremely remote ,no ID card on earth will stop that only extremely tough border control will stop it and huge numbers of officials manning them ,what you save putting up ALI or Mustapher for a decade or so until their given leave to remain can be better spent keeping them out

then stop letting EU migrants in with a cursery glance you can bet a fair number will be "EU" residents purely because the country they entered from non EU countries quickly gave the status on the promise they left the country as quickly as possible to live in another one

 

 

Sorry Chesters, i know this probably took you ages to write, but there are so many things that are mistaken, incorrect or just plain wrong i just dont know where to start.

[barry luxton]

Who was the alleged donor Barry?

must apologise, been busy queing up getting out of london, after i spent two and a half hours getting up there this morning, vote for tfl, you just know they are rubbish.

 

Anyway, it wasn't an alledged payment, it was from the football club he visited. It was on the radio two days ago, i did hear what club it was but forgot who. i won't guesstimate.

[corydoras]

must apologise, been busy queing up getting out of london, after i spent two and a half hours getting up there this morning, vote for tfl, you just know they are rubbish.

 

Anyway, it wasn't an alledged payment, it was from the football club he visited. It was on the radio two days ago, i did hear what club it was but forgot who. i won't guesstimate.

Grimsby Town?

[chesters1]

Sorry Chesters, i know this probably took you ages to write, but there are so many things that are mistaken, incorrect or just plain wrong i just dont know where to start.

 

no problem ,were off camping tomorrow so i will write another bit on my return ,but to save you the hardship of typing i will put in yes or no conclusions so all you have to do is highlight the appropriate response

 

questions such as

 

(weve already established spain does treat injuries in certain circumstances not the "nada" to any treatment you stated )

 

questions such as .....

 

spain does not treat non contributors in the health system you use (insurance?) that means under no circumstances can poor people be treated that have neither money or insurance IE your letting people die? (this also must include non spaniards as like us your shackled by the human rights laws even johnie foreigner cannot be deliberately mal treated)

 

Yes it never treats anyone who hasn't put into the system (excepting the "emergency" type highlighted by someone else)

No? perhaps its not as tight as i thought

 

ofcourse as a warning (even being hindered by the lack of spanish i have) i will find circumstances of the opposite i'm sure if you say yes!

saying no ofcourse means the system you use is open to fraud despite your protestation it never happens

 

then i'm sure we can discus "benefits" for immigrants

 

is your border as secure as you think?

 

what ID do you need to get spanish ID (from a non spanish sense)

 

is carrying ID compulsory and what happens if you cannot produce it?

 

what do police actually check when they look at your ID?

 

 

have fun

 

as you can see the weathers declining the moment poor me goes outside ,expect snow by sunday!

Edited March 28, 2012 by chesters1

[Andrew]

It seems that Britain is doing everything wrong Chester's, our policing policies are wrong, our benefit systems is wrong, our health system is wrong, our government are wrong, our nationality is wrong (pride), we need ID cards, our imigration laws are wrong, our human rights are wrong, our monachy are wrong, the house of lards are wrong, the list is endless.

I know, let a foreign government take us under their wing and put everything right.

Does utopia exist ? seems it does, but not in GREAT BRITAIN