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Beginning of the end??????


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all statistic can be rigged ,stand outside tesco and ask people leaving where they shop and you can see the result ,stand outside harrods and ask leavers how nuch they spend will result in a far different outcome to standing outside a local charity shop

even the national average income is rigged ,is it more lower paid people having a greater income or is it the higher paid getting much more ,i bet its the top end effecting it.

The biggest blunder the fox hunters have are its members ,joe bloggs on the screen being asked pertinent questions are sure to stumble over their words and bring up the "control" as a last resort unfortunatly its not backed up with the facts that rather than them exterminating foxes they actually support practices that result in a larger fox population than there would be without hunting ,yes the people see the "pinks" and their horns and hounds but rarely do you see the onlookers and supporters that outnumber them by a thousand % infact the anti`s get far more coverage than the greater number of ordinary people who enjoy their day in the country watching usually foxes leading hounds and horses on a fruitless chase through field and vale untill the fox gets fed up and goes home :)

what we have to be carefull is not having good knowledgable orators who can get their point of veiw accross and counter well versed "anti" spokesmen who know the "spin words" that catch public attention.

Angling has to be cleaned up ,most passers by hardly notice anglers and dont interfere but someone walking past a pond and seeing a fluffy bird suspended on a bit of nylon WILL remember swiftly forgetting theve been walking their dog past that pond for XX years without seeing anything but a pond .

Ban day ticket waters unless the public cannot enter the site ,Turf out Bailiffs who dont do their jobs and BAN anglers who break the rules ,the latter is the hardest although i see litter on a peg and know exactly who left it after theve left i cannot act ,yes i could report them but Dave Granger is fair ,maybe the wind blew the litter from another place ,maybe another angler used the swim and moved on before i came on rounds so long as i have a maybe i act fairly.

If angling is the next on the anti`s list its anglers faults ,anti`s arnt going to show pristine lakes birsting with wildlife and nicely spoken anglers lovingly protecting their fish with kid gloves and farewell waves as they carefully release their fishy friends NO they will be out looking for those lakes with line hanging from every tree ,looking for those fluffy birds mummified after days hanging in the sun ,Looking for litter strewn lakes both dayticket or free ,and looking for mindless anglers who behave totally different to 99% of the others.cast out those morons who bring our hobby into disrepute and the public will remain our freinds

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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I will be voting Labour Judy! Not so much voting 'em in as voting Conservative out!

 

Mark, of the 25% Labour vote how many were actually, like me, anti-Tory? Looked at that way it makes your point even more poignant!

 

Re Foxes becoming extinct, well, thats a larf! Isn't the excuse for hunting them that they are killers of sheep, chickens and little old lady's pet cats? So, if shooting is going to be more efficient, then isn't that preferable?

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OhEEEr Chester's who rattled your cage! :D

I think I feel a bit like the Hobits when that 'firy eye' thing get's 'em in it's gaze! I just hope the anti's can find another soft target to keep them occupied a bit longer before they start gunning for us.

As per the 'banning angling' thread, We must hold firm & not allow angling to be nibbled away at with livebait bans etc etc, once the 'thin end' has been inserted the rest of the wedge will follow!

Tog

Jealousy: totally irrational anger directed at people who happen to be richer, prettier, thinner, cleverer and more successful than you are.
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no one rattled my cage the angling related bits are just my obsevances over 40 years of fishing and the last 2 as a bailiff ,the anti`s are a bit like pedo`s extremly clever and are able to wheeedle their way into public positions where they use this power to "influence" others (i am noway saying anti`s ARE pedo`s) just think a lovely lake well known by the public first thing in the morning ,no anglers about "suddenly" a camoflauged "angler" appears ,bags of litter appear all over the place a few roadkills suspended from trees ,line mysteriosly finds its way into veiw strung on trees and maybe a few hooks left for nice doggies to get in their paws ,then a few pictures a couple of calls to the papers with "i was walking my dog and it got a hook in its foot" etc and suddenly the public wakes up If the public see`s the "evidence" as "normal" (although extreme) for the lake in question then they will voice it IF they see it as totally alien to the pond they see every day they will doupt it and the anti`s will themselves get a reputation not to be trusted.

the lake i bailiff has bridal paths on 2 sides and a golf course on the other ,the Greensand way runs round it and theres loads of walkers ,i put an EXTREME effort into keeping this pond litter and line free and so far in talking to ramblers (most days) only good words are voiced about the lake ,and litter breeds litter ,i defy anyone to find any round "my" pond but just supposing i didnt do my job and joe bloggs dog DID get line around it or a hook in its eye all this would be spoilt in a flash and all my effort pointless

 

[ 16. September 2004, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: chesters1 ]

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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What's all this "if foxes could vote they'd vote for hunting to continue" rubbish. This tired old argument was dragged out again in The Times today. The premise was that if hunting was banned then foxes would be shot or gassed instead. Instead?? They already are. Anyone who fishes at night in the Trent valley will have seen the lampers' lights flashing around the trees on many an occasion. The hunters contradict themselves all the time. When it suits them they say they are needed to control the foxes, yet at other times they will tell you that the fox usually gets away.

Something that annoys me even more is this idea that the farmers will let the fields go to waste if hunting is no longer allowed on them. It seems to me that if so, their so-called "guardians of the countryside" boast is nothing more than a sham.

 

p.s. My uncle has been a life-long farmer in a prime hunting area and he has always refused to allow the hunt onto his land.

 

p.p.s. Before anyone else says it, I'm not suggesting they shoot the foxes down from the trees, :D that's just where you see the torch beams as they scan the fields. It is certainly un-nerving to hear a rifle shot when you are within range on the opposite bank.

 

[ 16. September 2004, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Peter Sharpe ]

English as tuppence, changing yet changeless as canal water, nestling in green nowhere, armoured and effete, bold flag-bearer, lotus-fed Miss Havishambling, opsimath and eremite, feudal, still reactionary, Rawlinson End.

 

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Terry 'Wordbender' makes some very valid points when he flags up the fact that the cessation of traditional fox hunting will only serve to to ensuure that foxes are killed in far greater numbers than has ever been the case in the past usually with a rifle and lamp.

 

The other thing that we can expect is that the fury of the animal rights brigade will be brought to bear on anglers.

 

The people behind these are well paid professional agitators they are not going to give up a lucrative living easily and attacking angling will keep them employed for some time to come.

 

In the real world we can expect to see an increase in attacks on anglers on the banks. As ever the brunt of these will be borne by those least able to defend themselves, the young, the elderly, and the disabled.Anglers on there own will be particularly at risk from the gangs of thugs that masquerade as 'Sabs'these people operate in gangs and like easy prey.

 

The lowlifes that do these things will claim to feel morally justified as they are fighting a 'War' against fish abusers....Laugh not these cretins do exist and genuinly belive this.

 

The people at the top of most of the better known organisations eg the RSPCA and LACS will pretend to condem such actions but at the same time state that some form of direct action is 'justified in bringing an end to the barbaric practise of angling'.

 

There will be little need for the government to go to the trouble of banning angling and anyway there is no major class hatred issue here for either party to make capital out of.

 

Angling is more likely to be destroyed by by a combination of apathy on the part of anglers to get involved in anything positive to promote the sport combined with the level of fear that the roving gangs of thugs will bring in many areas along with the near impossibility of policing safely the protection of anglers.even if the police forces had the desire so to do.

 

Personally I doubt that we will ever get any sort of decent response from the police services as it would stretch their limited resources too far and besides it's not as profitable as issuing speeding tickets!

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical

minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which

holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd

by the clean end"

Cheers

Alan

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I well remember an old Durham farmer telling of a time when he was standing by a gate to one of his fields when the local hunt came charging into the field. Apparently their language to him was not very polite, telling him to 'F' off out of the way. That was the last time those F*****S will cross my land he said, and it was.

They have such an arrogance about them, don't they!

 

Well they DID.

 

Alan,

The only war's against anglers are in the minds of those who would encourage people to campaign against us, people like your good self.

In any society we are bound to find a very small minority of idiots who have a brain no bigger than a pigeon, and you will find then in every culture world wide, but come on. Get a grip on your senses, and live in the real world.

 

I'm not saying they don't exist,and that they will ever go away, but get things in proportion. The vulnerable have always been picked on, sadly they always will be, no matter what their activity, age or mental/physical disaility.

 

[ 16. September 2004, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: wearyone ]

Tight Lines,

 

Wearyone

 

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Alan, some well made vaild points.

This was what I was trying to get across in past 'anti CA' threads, that any angler who signed an 'anti' hunting petition was supporting the anti angling brigade.

Not one 'anti' hunting organisation I could find supported angling, as far as they are concerned we are all 'tarred with the same brush' of 'animal cruelty' and it is only a matter of to what degree.

Hopefully anglers and others who think the countryside is not just an exhibit will be able to defend our pastimes untill the 'vegan utopia' the anti's desire is finaly upon us.

 

Sorry for having a little 'dig' Chester's - you know I can 'go off on one' sometimes!

May your good works continue to show angling in a good light - god knows we'll need it.

Tog

Jealousy: totally irrational anger directed at people who happen to be richer, prettier, thinner, cleverer and more successful than you are.
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no probs cage rattling is a chesters1 forte ,i give as good as i get and hopefully vice versa :D:D

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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I cannot believe some of the posts on here, it serves them right for being toffs or arrogant.

 

Will the same posters feel the same if game fishing is banned, I certainly hope not as I feel it is the safest form of angling. They have the waters that are on private land (law of trespass), they eat what they catch etc.

 

Foxes are vermin and need to be controlled. How will this happen now?

Can't use poison, might get badgers etc

Can't use traps, same reason

Shooting, can it be assured that there will be a clean kill every time or doesn't it matter that it might die in a ditch somewhere as long as it isn't being chased by dogs who cares?

 

I don't care one way or another about hunting, I have been on hunts when I was younger but I have never seen a fox killed by dogs. I did hear one get shot once by the master of hounds.

 

Mark

Mark

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