Radovan Karadzic captured

[chesters1]

but look harder at history half of those wars were fought for ethnic reasons.

Kuwait was part of whats now called iraq until the glorious west mucked about with the borders pushing 3 countries into one and chopping off kuwait,germany took back parts of german soil mucked about by the winners of ww1 (although its been back and forth several times in history) then decided because we didnt interfere to get a bit more.

both korea and Vietnam were divided by outside forces

the balkans have been mucked about by many conquerors including the west mixing and dividing ethnic groups ,the falklands was about argies wanting the ex argy islands back we got through war.

i expect if you look hard enough the wests interfering (its still going on) will be the cause of lots of wars in the future.

most though have cropped up recently because the west (especially britain) got fed up with them and left them to their own devices,most of the ex russian states are hanging on but will soon realise the "civilised" world looks sternly on big countries picking on little ones (america is exempt ) but have fewer problems if little ones have a punch up ,so much we'l probably arm them a little or at least install a puppet state to hate

dont mention religeous interference the server would crash with their meddling

Edited July 26, 2008 by chesters1

[five bellies]

but look harder at history half of those wars were fought for ethnic reasons.

Kuwait was part of whats now called iraq until the glorious west mucked about with the borders pushing 3 countries into one ,germany took back parts of german soil mucked about by the winners of ww1 (although its been back and forth several times in history) then decided because we didnt interfere to get a bit more.

the balkans have been mucked about by many conquerors including the west mixing and dividing ethnic groups ,the falklands was about argies wanting the ex argy islands back we got through war.

i expect if you look hard enough the wests interfering (its still going on) will be the cause of lots of wars in the future.

most though have cropped up recently because the west (especially britain) got fed up with them and left them to their own devices,most of the ex russian states are hanging on but will soon realise the "civilised" world looks sternly on big countries picking on little ones (america is exempt ) but have fewer problems if little ones have a punch up ,so much we'l probably arm them a little

 

 

Nationalist Reasons That is political and geographical,look at the geographical composition of the country we now Know as Germany prior to WWI and Cultural maybe, Ethnicity No! Very few wars Between States have been over Race alone

[chesters1]

if you go to race were in bigger ****

ethnicity is a mind state not a border ,tribalism's a better way of putting it ,putting a fence up cutting a tribe in half results in tension weve been doing it for centuries ,now those little tribes want to either get their land back or reunite with those of a similar mind set and be comforted! AAAHH.

not so long ago the middle east had petty tribe wars but the clever west bunged them in boxes now those boxes want what it was pre fiddling but a 100 or so years of fiddling have resulted in boxes fighting each other because the enforced peace didnt let them fight inside the boxes.

the worst box is the isrealy box dropped right in the middle it will be fighting for ever.

its even here in civilised britain ,definite divides only we grudgingly get on with each other ...well untill a football match apears

take for example china ,its a country on the map and in name but its seperate states ,under the reign of a very ruthless leadership i expect if that leadership was removed (as we did with saddam and the taliban) it would split up into states again each one centered round its ethic center ,if the new ruler was a laid back chappie all would be well and the mingling of ethnic groups would continue ,if not then you would get squabbling and seperation and perjhaps ethnic cleansing if it was supported by the majority or rather not objected to by those with the correct ethnic background

Edited July 26, 2008 by chesters1

[five bellies]

if you go to race were in bigger ****

ethnicity is a mind state not a border ,tribalism's a better way of putting it ,putting a fence up cutting a tribe in half results in tension weve been doing it for centuries ,now those little tribes want to either get their land back or reunite with those of a similar mind set and be comforted! AAAHH.

not so long ago the middle east had petty tribe wars but the clever west bunged them in boxes now those boxes want what it was pre fiddling but a 100 or so years of fiddling have resulted in boxes fighting each other because the enforced peace didnt let them fight inside the boxes.

the worst box is the isrealy box dropped right in the middle it will be fighting for ever.

its even here in civilised britain ,definite divides only we grudgingly get on with each other ...well untill a football match apears

take for example china ,its a country on the map and in name but its seperate states ,under the reign of a very ruthless leadership i expect if that leadership was removed (as we did with saddam and the taliban) it would split up into states again each one centered round its ethic center ,if the new ruler was a laid back chappie all would be well and the mingling of ethnic groups would continue ,if not then you would get squabbling and seperation and perjhaps ethnic cleansing if it was supported by the majority or rather not objected to by those with the correct ethnic background

 

 

 

Ethnicity is certainly not a State of mind! it defines us all! in some way, using your rational you could not support any other statements you have made on this thread as the situation that occured in the Balkans would have just been an Idological discussion on genetics not a state sponcerd act of Mass Murder A Border on the other hand could be, and there in lyes the Devil I believe a missconception is that ethnicity defines your Nationality try in the USA telling a White,Black,Asian ,or Hispanic that they are not American but just Geographicaly missplaced I dought if youd get back to Blighty in one piece . Tribes can share a common Ethnic back ground and Religion and be mortal enimies,

Edited July 26, 2008 by five bellies

[chesters1]

of course it is i consider myself english ,i was born here but my dads mum was irish and my mum scottish .

but you will find many english (or wherever) born asians consider themselves asian then english,its in the mind its half the problem.

if we all went back a couple of thousand years it would be tribalism ,having a power decide where you live and who you live with on a stroke of a pen brings trouble when that big power goes as we saw .

its also not genetic ,my genes are "foreign" but i'm a very convincing englishman just as an asian would be if he knew the language if he went back to "asia"

pride also counts and integration ,if you fully integrate then you will go unnoticed unless you have a physical difference .

as i said with the religeous side its not tattooed on your forhead so if your picked on for religeous reasons it must be because you make yourself stand out ,if you stand out you get noticed if you get noticed you will be talked about

the difference could be an excuse or greed (that tribes got more cows or land) for a punch up but it doesnt turn into war just infighting on the whole ,when the "tribes" differences are settled it goes peacefull for a while.

it is simplistic but tribalism is alive and well ,we have football tribes which like war with other football tribes ,yorkshire tribes that dislike lancashire tribes but what would happen if america decided to change the area so yorkshire became lancashire and vice versa and forced those there to become yorkshiremen or lancs men all hell would break loose ,with enough force tit would be bickering but once that big power went.........

both yorks and lancs are english but then the mind comes into it ,being part of a tribe is a human need for protection (physical in the past mentally now) were all on here because were anglers but start talking about angling on a knitting forum will get remarks from some hard line knitters i'm sure ,enough complaints by the knitter tribe and you will be ehnically cleansed (banned)

subdued hate is alive and well and it follows ethnic and cultural lines ,we dislike xx because the gov gives them zzz and we dont get half that ,xx gets upset because we dislike them because they get more than us so form tribes (or ghettos) for security and like minded ness ,estates fill with "types" and those that can afford it leave leaving more room for more "types",its just tribalism modern style.

were pretty laid back here so wars out but the occasional riot breaks out when hate boils up for someone different,tribes are in the mind ,neighbours can bicker because they are two tribes ,streets can form tribes ,estates ,then when outsiders are hated more than neighbours countries become big tribes and once the threats gone it all goes back to small tribes ,its how we all existed our primitive side isnt far down despite our evolution.

you may think your not included but road rage is primitive survival instinct but misplaced ,someone thinking your threatening them and reacting ,i expect 99% of the time mr road rage is a respectable member of the public untill that hates triggered ,i expect most people have a trigger i havnt found mine yet but no doupt its just waiting

in ethnic cleansing a mass of people will see others as a threat (real or imagined) if the triggers triggered those usual mild peace loving types will do anything to remove the problem ,once all is left is like minded people the problems gone its a happy tribe again ,in genocide it just using the last resort to get rid of the problem and some people will go the whole hog! the rest look away through fear of those few or inside hoping it cures the problem and let others do the dirty work.

what right has outsiders to tell a tribe they shouldn't do this or that peace comes through internal stability not a big gun ,dictators are overthrown by the masses not outsiders threats or interfereance

Edited July 26, 2008 by chesters1

[five bellies]

Chesters Old Boy, by what you have told us

 

Ethnicly you are Westen Europian, born of the poeple of the British isles,Wiggle how you may you are on that hook.

Serbia is populated by many ethnic groups, one of the groups you hear nothing about is the Hungarian Serbs Just as Serbian as the Bosnians,and the Croats,Hungary in the hight of the troubles informed the by then Slavic Serb goverment of he region Touch these poeple at your Peril the Serbs strangley listened they did this a second time during the Kosovan war the Serbs listened again

 

 

I used to subscribe to the football fans being Tribal Idea They are not and I was wrong, What happens at football matches is in my oppinion is a display of the Flock / pack mentality quite different from Cultural and geographical bonds that define tribes,

 

to sum up my piont All the Factions in the Balkan war where Serbian, The Slavic Serbs used the age old we where here first argument to maim and massicer hundreds of thousands of poeple for a Ethnicly Pure country that no one in living memory could recall.The we where here first argument isnt without value the trouble is with the mass migrations and ethnic displacements that have taken part in Europe over the past two millenia, no one can jump on that band wagon.

 

I think we have gone as far as we can on this one Chesters we are too entrenched to find common ground.

Edited July 27, 2008 by five bellies

[Ken L]

Oh dear.

I'm starting to feel like Max Moseley.

I started off with an inocent bit of fun and suddely I hear echos of the footsteps of the stormtroopers.

It's a funny old place is AnglersNet.

[gozzer]

It's a funny old place is AnglersNet.

 

But a very entertaining one to those not involved.

 

That is until some moaning old git from a 'suvvern tribe' decides to bring us Yorkshire folk into it.

 

 

 

John.

[chesters1]

your tea's ok but weak

i was hoping on more entertainment but the baits getting old or the anglers to well known

i'm off to my knitting forum for more fun

Edited July 27, 2008 by chesters1

[Ken Davison South Wales]

The piont I was making Ken Prehaps not clearly was When a Goverment Turns on a section of its own poeple for extermination it is an act of criminality, calling It a war Is Perversely trying to give it a Venier of Respectability.

 

to Awnser your qeustion though Mate

 

World war One and Two, and the Korian war, we ashamedly never went to war over Hitlers final solution and us and Germany shares the same Ethnicity, White westen Europian in the main, Iraqs invasion of Kuwait and the subsequent counter attack from the 1st Coalition, Many a small campian in the former soviat union, Moldovia for one that was small but it was about Sucssession Arminia and Azerbijan that was about terratorry not a Christian Muslim Gig, the Spanish Civil war the Vietnam war,The comunist incursion in Bornio,Pol pots free rain in cambodia,The Unita upriseing in Angola,The Farq insurgency in Columbia,The Napolionic war, the Falklands war,Cino Japanese war,the American war of Indipendence,The American Invasion of the Phillipines, Granada,Panama, The flipping Alamo theres been loads,

 

Ethnic Belief is a very broad brush to Paint with If If you are lose with the concept of Ethnicity. Political difference and geography combine with greed cause as many wars as Religion and Ethnic Diferance.

 

 

Sorry I'm late back on this one.

 

How can we be so certain that these people were not killed in an internal war similar to one very close to home Northern Ireland. There is little doubt in my mind that in each stronghold what ever the religion or ethnic origin of the people were they killed the opposition.

 

The situation had been brewing for decades under Russia's rule and when that was relinquished the outcome was obvious.

 

And something you may or may not know is that the Islamic fighters were well armed and supported by Middle East factions and the Christian majority were fighting for their lives, make no mistake about that.

 

You and I might not have like methods employed by either side but once again I would state no war has ever been fought according to the rules now quoted, there is only one rule in war and that is to win whatever the cost and anyone who thinks differently is deluding themselves.