St George

[corydoras]

I don't think so. I think it's more likely that they were brought back from the Crusades. The Crusaders were heavily into the cult of Saint George, and they would have known the legend of him killing the dragon.

 

The facts were unearthed from my brain. I had a marvellous primary education. A little school in the Scottish countryside with one member of staff, the teacher, and twenty kids between the age of 4 and 11 all in one classroom.

 

Every Friday afternoon Miss Morrison would tell us stories, anything from Norse sagas to the legends of the patron saints. That coupled with the gift of a good memory (I only need to read things once) has served me very well so far.

 

I don't think it's "cheating" to double check something by doing a bit of research using Google or Wolfram Alpha before I make a post. Do you?

[Vagabond]

I don't think so. I think it's more likely that they were brought back from the Crusades. The Crusaders were heavily into the cult of Saint George, and they would have known the legend of him killing the dragon.

Really ?

 

Have you not heard of Nidhoggr** ? Just one of the many Nordic dragons.

 

Nidhoggr was slain by Beowulf (who also died as a result of the fight), an event that pre-dates the Crusades by some margin.

 

(just looked it up, Beowulf was sixth century, the story was translated into Old English before the tenth century - ie well before the Crusades.)

 

All that makes me wonder if this is not yet another pagan myth that was hi-jacked by the Christians

 

** If you were asleep whilst Miss Morrison was recounting the Norse saga of Beowulf, I hope she took the tawse to you !

Edited April 25, 2014 by Vagabond

[chesters1]

1. That's why "St George" is in inverted commas in my post. No doubt there were plenty of wannabes

2. As you say, George died in the first century. 900 years later brings us to the "tenth century serf" I mentioned, and the beginnings of cartography soon after.

 

It was a tongue-in-cheek hypothesis, anyway, but you have shown it as consistent with the "facts" you have unearthed !

 

 

I am not too concerned re George, I am more interested in how stories of dragons arose in England, and the remains of carnivorous dinosaurs coupled with a superstitious populace sounds pretty plausible to me.

Plenty of fossil sharks teeth about and back bone disks of large fish at highcliff (sharks teeth although considered rare are extremely common as a shark sheds shedloads in its life ) for a enterprising monks to bulk up his stock of christs finger bones and rag from the burial etc with dragon regalia as a side line and unless you have seen a shark a dragon is good enough explanation

Ofcourse if your just referring to flying dead big beasts theres been plenty only the fire breathing bit is missing but a bit of brimstone is good enough to get the mind wandering even when its not sunday in the past

If you combine george ,this dragon and the holy grail then to the gullible jesus his dad and mary,s milkman have probably walked by the end of your medieval road while your back was turned ,after all to think otherwise was possibly a fatal mistake to make

If the bishops or gods lesser mouthpieces said it was so it was so

Edited April 25, 2014 by chesters1

[corydoras]

Really ?

 

Have you not heard of Nidhoggr** ? Just one of the many Nordic dragons.

 

Nidhoggr was slain by Beowulf (who also died as a result of the fight), an event that pre-dates the Crusades by some margin.

 

(just looked it up, Beowulf was sixth century, the story was translated into Old English before the tenth century - ie well before the Crusades.)

 

All that makes me wonder if this is not yet another pagan myth that was hi-jacked by the Christians

 

** If you were asleep whilst Miss Morrison was recounting the Norse saga of Beowulf, I hope she took the tawse to you !

You'll need to do better than that Dave. There is bugger all Nordic about Beowulf except the setting.

 

I don't recall her ever taking the strap to any of us. Only bad teachers needed to use the strap.

Edited April 25, 2014 by corydoras

[snakey1]

Níðhöggr is found in the Völuspá and is definitely part of Norse mythology .

 

The Lambton worm is another example of a crusades era based dragon myth

 

[Andrew]

 

Níðhöggr is found in the Völuspá and is definitely part of Norse mythology .

 

The Lambton worm is another example of a crusades era based dragon myth

Enjoy.

 

 

The Lambton WormOne Sunday morn young Lambton wentA-fishing' in the Wear;An' catched a fish upon he's heuk,He thowt leuk't varry queer.But whatt'n a kind of fish it wasYoung Lambton cuddent tell.He waddn't fash te carry'd hyem,So he hoyed it doon a well.cho: Whisht! Lads, haad yor gobs,     An Aa'll tell ye's aall an aaful story     Whisht! Lads, haad yor gobs,     An' Aa'll tell ye  'boot the worm.Noo Lambton felt inclined te ganAn' fight i' foreign wars.he joined a troop o' Knights that caredFor nowther woonds nor scars,An' off he went te PalestineWhere queer things him befel,An' varry seun forgat abootThe queer worm i' the well.But the worm got fat an' growed and' growedAn' growed an aaful size;He'd greet big teeth, a greet big gob,An' greet big goggle eyes.An' when at neets he craaled abootTe pick up bits o' news,If he felt dry upon the road,He milked a dozen coos.This feorful worm wad often feedOn caalves an' lambs an' sheep,An' swally little barins aliveWhen they laid doon te sleep.An' when he'd eaten aall he cudAn' he had had he's fill,He craaled away an' lapped he's tailSeven times roond Pensher Hill.The news of this myest aaful wormAn' his queer gannins onSeun crossed the seas, gat te the earsOv brave and' bowld Sor John.So hyem he cam an' catched the beastAn' cut 'im in twe haalves,An' that seun stopped he's eatin' bairns,An' sheep an' lambs and caalves.So noo ye knaa hoo aall the foaksOn byeth sides ov the WearLost lots o' sheep an' lots o' sleepAn' leeved i' mortal feor.So let's hev one te brave Sor JohnThat kept the bairns frae harm,Saved coos an' caalves by myekin' haalvesO' the famis Lambton Worm.             Final ChorusNoo lads, Aa'll haad me gob,That's aall Aa knaa aboot the storyOv Sor John's clivvor jobWi' the aaful Lambton Worm.

 

 

GOOD OWLD WIKI

Edited April 25, 2014 by Andrew

[Vagabond]

Good find Andrew.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Vagabond

[chesters1]

Lucy lampton ,not seen her for years .now its dr lucy on the tv ,nice girl

[Vagabond]

(Cory) There is bugger all Nordic about Beowulf except the setting.

 

So ? If the setting is Nordic, the story is Nordic

(Snakey) Níðhöggr is found in the Völuspá and is definitely part of Norse mythology .

Quite.

 

Beowulf was Swedish, (or Geatish if you want to be pedantic), the fight is alleged to have taken place in Denmark, the first written account we have is in Old English. It is a fiction based on some real events as regards the people mentioned - the dragon is just some seasoning !

 

What label one gives the poem does not seem important to me - but I understand many people/creatures mentioned in Beowulf are also mentioned in Norse sagas.

 

PS The multiquote is playing silly beggars - the first quote is Cory's

Edited April 25, 2014 by Vagabond

[corydoras]

So ? If the setting is Nordic, the story is Nordic

Quite.

 

Beowulf was Swedish, (or Geatish if you want to be pedantic), the fight is alleged to have taken place in Denmark, the first written account we have is in Old English. It is a fiction based on some real events as regards the people mentioned - the dragon is just some seasoning !

 

What label one gives the poem does not seem important to me - but I understand many people/creatures mentioned in Beowulf are also mentioned in Norse sagas.

 

PS The multiquote is playing silly beggars - the first quote is Cory's

Nidhoggr was slain by Beowulf. Only in the Old English epic. Not in the sagas. What was Nidhoggr's purpose?