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Guest Jaybee

I guess someone has to say it

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Rabs, I see Kingfishers almost every day (4 or 5 days a week) and they often settle on my rods or a branch and fish, so to me they are fairly "commonplace" They therefore do not have the "Oooh" factor that makes a winner :)

 

Lucky bugger. <_<

 

I rarely see them & when I do it's normally just a blue flash as they're flying away. :(

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Wait till I get my new camera I will be such a bore :)

 

And learn how to post up pictures :headhurt:

 

I'm still on the fence, with the choice of what camera to purchase.

 

When it comes down to testicalitys, how do I set up a light meter for a Box Brownie. :sun:

 

Leave the judging to the judge, don't make it over complicated, I'm just a novice when it comes to snapshots.

 

It is all of your photographs that have given me inspiration and the need to go out and buy a camera to compete.

 

If the end results need to be more testicle, well I won’t be in with a chance, please keep it simple.

 

Last word, I did think Jaybee’s Kingfisher would have been in the final. But my vote still went in, as I felt the judge was getting 3 finalists that they thought were correct, even though I didn’t agree with the selection.


Cheers 4 Now

John E

ANBanna.gif

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i agree John,

 

i am a noddy at taking pics, but will still enter if i think they suit the bill, however if i ever had to give an explanation of why i picked what pic then i would be lost to tell the truth, keep it simple and within grasp of the likes of me, i work 7 days a week and dont have the time to look for that "shot" to enter every comp, i take my hat off to those that spend the time in doing so and having the "eye" for a good picture, but after all it is supposed to be fun isnt it.

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The challenge was started with the thoughts that everyone would have a chance at winning, judgeing and most important of all taking part. From the day tripper with the 2 megapixel Point and shoot to the DSLR owners who strive to capture every nuance of the moment, but at the end of the day its a "Challenge" to get out there in a 2 week time span and get a shot of a given subject. Maybe on this occasion the terminology "Nature and Wildlife" may have been unknowingly misrepresented and may have been intended to be Flora, fauna and wildlife. We simply wont know untill Julia returns. Although the clematis is now highlighted as a cultivated plant surely it is still nature?

 

But if we are to be this tough about a natural thing not being nature, then I would like to take this a step further, and I now point to the words Julia mentioned in her challenge about spending a couple of hours walking along a hedgerow Quote "I have chosen this theme because as it’s one very close to my heart. I could happily spend an hour (or two) just walking along hedgerow and watching as it comes alive in front of me; nursery web spiders, wolf spiders, butterflies, caterpillars, slow worms and many more." Was this perhaps Julias way of defining how she spends her day as opposed to a definitive subject

 

Jaybee's Kingfisher shot, excellent as it is would not have made it to the final three on the basis that it did not fit the criteria written above, his "white on Pink" would have though.

 

So we have the two extremes here, of either allowing all or just some, if you catch my drift.

 

Then let me now change tack a little, go back to the point and shoot vs the DSLR enthusiast, would we not end up with a small core winners circle (and so also small ammount of judges) if we judged finally down to the last three based on technical issues alone. I appreciate that Jaybee mentions that this final stage should be judged on technical, composition, eye appeal and Judges preference but I have to wonder how long would it be before it became an elitist choice. I'm not however suggesting it would go that way, I'm merely doing my best to show all the options and possible outcomes.

 

When I initially made a topic last November (http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=55943&st=0) asking would anyone be interested in taking part in a challenge, I made the following statement about picking the three finalists "After two weeks I select three of the best posted (as I see them)" this is the first post of the "Photo Challenge Questions" pinned at the top of the forum, that topic was the one that started it all and moulded the challenge into what we have now, I do feel its pertinent to mention the words in brackets (as I see them) which would refer to the current judge also. I think this is why we now have this topic here today, because we cant see how Julia came to her decision, I might add that this has happened to me on more than several occasions though that Judges have made selections that have left me thinking "How could you possibly leave that one out" such is life and as it stands now it is the judges decision.

 

Since last November I have had many, many pm's from people about various things relating to the challenge, there has not been one challege that has not been questioned in some way. All kinds of suggestions have been made, photo and or Exif manipulation, favouritism, cheating (yes cheating!) even bribery allegations have been made. This has been constant since last November and the very first challenge, I've replied to all and investigated as best I could but had minimal success with it.

 

I do think the addition of the Judge stating why he/she chose the final three is a good one, even if only to say "Those three where my favourites", but lets expand upon this for the benefit of all by all giving comments as to who you would have chose and who wouldn't have and why. There are members here who can give constructive comment on all shots posted, just comment as well as you can and I'm certain it will help a lot of people.

 

Steve...:)


There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs. - Ansel Adams

 

Focal Planet

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Guest CJS2

O,dear, been off line for most of this comp. Just back :blink: frankly, it puts me off entering again, I have been close once, in the light of this I an glad I came second :huh: . The coments hi-lite just how individuals judge each other, 'dont agee with the decission so it is not right'. So they are the only one in step?

 

Quote from 'John E'

"It is all of your photographs that have given me inspiration and the need to go out and buy a camera to compete"

 

The first part of 'John E' sentance sums up my feelings.

 

Now, on my return, I am very disalusioned? Is this a comp for fun? or is there some cudose I have missed, money, thats it, the prize money. :2:

 

CJS2

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Is this a comp for fun? or is there some cudose I have missed, money, thats it, the prize money. :2:

 

CJS2

 

I think that this point is the one we should all be remembering now. I have been suprised in more than one comp at what entries were selected but on speaking to Tracy about the ones I've liked, she's told me "no no no, I like that that and that much better" :( .

 

There have been a few good points raised now though. I like the idea of the judge giving a brief outline on why they think the ones they've picked are the best.

 

Anyway, on with the fun I say. :yeah::yeah: .

 

Cheers............HB


rb_getcreative.gif

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Guest Jaybee
Regarding any of your pics Jay, should we/the judge take into account the time and effort you put in to get your pics.

Den

Most certainly not Den, I was simply trying to state that a "perfect" photo can take a lot of time and energy to achieve and therefore is as valid as the blurred shot of a once in a lifetime moment such as the hawk/prey example you gave.

 

I would like to add here that I would be disappointed if the entire thread revolved around my kingfisher shot. Sure I was disappointed it wasnt selected - but I can live with that. I'm not spitting my dummy out, trying to stop the fun element or trying to make the competitions an elitist event.

I spend everday (weather permiting) taking photos - I'm fortunate in that sense but I do that anyway regardless of a competition. I simply think that the very nature of selecting three finalists means a judge has decided those are the three they prefer regardless of wether others agree - I just think sharing the reasons why would help.

Edited by Jaybee

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Guest CJS2

As stated earlier, I've been off line for 10 days so seen little of the this comp. It worries me a little, that the inference in some of the posts are towards, time spent, picture quality and reading deep between the lines 'professionalism', yes I know, thats not whats is meant . . . ? same as Julia was being genuine over her choice of finalists, thats what she liked!

 

Some one has to say it . . . be careful at where the finger point, remember, one out, there are three pointing back :black_eye: Julia can fight here own corner perfectly well when she gets back.

 

However in the meantime, remember, those that enter the competitions do it for fun, often, with cameras that are glorified point and shoots, it is commendable that the quality is often so high considering these constraints. But then no one had told us you cant use P&S for competition work, until now :unsure: Or that it requires hours of sitting in one place to get a good photo. Snap-shot . . . the gull over the sea could not have been taken in any other way, any more than a bird of prey diving on its victim . . . pure snapshot that!!! :lol:

 

As one who, prefers the instant photo, I regularly use my Canon P&S in preference to my Nikon SLR, have submitted pictures many such pictures, and had members enjoy the results.

 

Perhaps the members who are complaining need a bigger challenge, a more advance format? I dont think this is what 'AN' Photographic site is all about.

 

Doing all the things mentioned in this thread obviously can make a top photo, but it ain't guaranteed, although it does improve the chances. One very memorable pictures in recent years (adorned many a male bedroom wall) was nothing more than a snap shot, right place, right time, 'female tennis player, showing knickers and bum' a snap shot I seem to remember the explination?, delete that one :lol: The ones that take so much time, shooting from every angle, move take a few more, glorified studio shots, carry a low difficulty factor in my book, and yet in the context of the comp I rate 'Blackberries' very highly? what do I know.

 

As I said, 'some one had to say it', I have no axe to grind, I dont have a picture submitted, to colour my view.

 

CJS2 :ph34r:

Edited by CJS2

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Guest Jaybee

CJS2 - if any of your post is referring to me stating that I spend a lot of hours taking photos and then expect that to be taken into consideration during a competition you are way off the mark.

I mentioned that simply as a counter to the statement that a perfect photo of one subject may not be in the same class as a blurred photo of another subject - my point was simply that a prefect photo can take a lot of time and effort.

It's irrelevant to me how long it takes to get a good photo - it's what I do as a hobby and is no different an approach to someone spending huge amounts of time to get that large carp in the lake.

The whole point of this debate is to at least try and get to a point where people are given a reason by whatever judge as to why they picked the final three - I don't think that in anyway detracts from the fun of the competition or any other aspect of the comps. The judge already knows why they made their choice else they wouldn't have made the choice - why not tell people?

 

I also maintain that some kind of guidelines for judges would be useful and I will give the current competition as an example - Title - Sport.

Looking at two of the entries Steve and Bikerian must be wondering if they read the title right.

To me - if the title is sport then the photos entered should at least represent sport in someway - and that can include fun such as Clifftops second entry.

(Sorry TubularBelle/franticfisherman2 I REALLY AM NOT having a go here but it is a perfect example) To ask a judge to choose between a selection of great moto-x , windsurfing, ONE sailing shot and golf shots in a sports competition with two entries of blokes lying asleep is asking too much. Fun competition or not, In my humble opinion if either of those two shots reached the final of a sports competition then it would be ludicrous. But with no simple guidelines to help the judge that could well happen.

 

I passionately believe that if you enter a competition then you try at least to incorporate the competition subject into your shots rather than enter any photo and use the excuse that the competitions are only for fun anyway, in essence it is an insult to the other entrants who have tried to stick to the subject (I am talking generally here not specifically)

 

I'm sorry the debate is probably going deeper than anyone wanted but at the end of the day the number of people contributing to the debate suggests this was something that did need to be aired.

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Guest CJS2

Its a shame we need to get to specifics. Of course ever photo must be judged as a photo, if they were judged as a series of events leading up to the shutter being fired, the idea is ridiculous. Therefore, we must accept the individual judges view. Not agreeing with the final result is acceptable on a personal level only, 'thats life' as they say, it affect all walks of life.

 

I can see the point in improving quality, however, P&S cameras dont compare with SLR's or do they? The quality we see on screen is way below that which is actually possible, and in some respect a leveler. However, there are variation in P&S's, variation in individuals ability to tidy things up with 'PS', and (being specific without malis) a picture submitted that was original taken as a RAW file, is that fair when most are JPEG?

 

Begs questions, the subject goes so much deeper? That there should be a 'class' or 'league'? Outrageous on AN! I see the whole this as being leveled by different judges, with different criteria in mind. Alternative, dont have a final three, every photo is voted on by the whole membership, each individual not voting on his or here submission. Song contest style, X number of points to award, the winner will have the most points. The winner chooses the next subject but does not have the task of final one. Not that far off from how we arrive at the final three now.

 

So no, Jaybee, I was not sniping at you individually, I have a hi regard for your work as you know. I see things a little more generally. "Technical v armature enthusiasm" needs sorting, in 'minds' and 'on site'? We need to maintain the 'fun', much more of this and its going to die, you will loose the mr/mrs average, its the 'everyone has a chance' that makes it fun.

 

Thats my two and a half peneth! Cant say it any plainer, Cliff, (CJS2, :ph34r: )

 

PS, If it offends, I apologise, but one is allowed a view, even if its wrong!

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