The future ?

[nick]

amazingly lucid for slightly more than a bottle of wine

[Cranfield]

I don't have any argument with the basics of your response, apart from once again, the condescension of describing anyone who disagrees as, "spoilt little kids", I couldn't be described by any one of those words.

 

The chronology of this issue, is what some people puzzle over.

Who made the first contact to discuss RSA, Defra, or the RSA Reps and when ?

In the resultant discussions, who first mentioned licences and bag limits ?

Of course the answers to these questions can only come from the RSA Reps, which will taint it, in some peoples eyes.

 

I think the reason you have a, "small vocal minority" questioning these matters, is that the vast majority of (unattatched to any organisation) sea anglers have no inkling of these discussions and what is ahead.

A cynic would say that this suits the RSA Reps, as there is little chance for any mandate to move them from their chosen course (not that I think it would anyway).

 

This lack of organisation amongst a very large group of people, that have a common interest is quite alarming.

It does leave them very vunerable to the opportunistic.

 

Anyway, I will not comment further on this thread, I just wanted to relay the conversation I had with the two blokes.

I wonder how many of the RSA Reps have walked along the beach asking anglers their opinions.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

That is a point I made when I sent my own personal response to DEFRA regarding the last draft strategy document. Sea angling doesn't attract many youngsters. Most people who still go sea fishing are those who have always done so, and those who remember how things used to be. Most, although not all, youngsters prefer to invest their time and money into carp angling, a discipline of the sport that provides lots of big fish. So sea anglers are already a dying breed. The average age of sea anglers is far older than those who partake in other disciplines of the sport. When us lot are gone, there won't be many taking our place because there's nothing to attract them in the way of fish to be caught. Introducing restrictions and management measures for the sake of it will just speed up the process. Real benefits to sea angling may slow the process down, but all the evidence so far says we won't see any. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

I am going to have to fly in the face of that one.

 

Last few months of 2005 and the first couple of 2006 I fished eight or nine South West & South Wales meets and I felt like an old fart at a disco

 

The youngsters far out weighed the oldies with a good sprinkling of 20 to 40yrs filling the in between ranks.

 

The other interesting point was the fact that these teenagers were actively planning meets between themselves for the next day or an evening meet during the week.

 

When I fish the marks around Bury Port the youngsters out number the oldies.

 

However when I fish more remote areas where transport etc is not so easy the age in general is higher and that also applies to charters where it is more expensive.

[barry luxton]

For the first time that I ever remember the government of the day have woken up to the fact that recreational sea angling is a good thing. (Probably because they can see an earning opportunity - and I don't mean licence revenue!) I for one think that is positive. Not only that but they have even decided to try and do something to improve the lot of RSA. And they have involved RSA in the early stages of trying to do something. I am not totally naive, I don't believe in the tooth fairy or father Christmas.

 

 

And in the light of all that a small but vocal minority are suggesting that some very hard working individuals are selling out anglers birthright. That is simply untrue.

 

The RSA reps are working bloody hard to try and get the best possible basis for negotiation in the RSA strategy document.

So if I am being condescending I am sorry, but there are a lot of spoilt little kids out there saying I want it all my own way and I want it now, and generally having temper tantrums because someone somewhere may have a different idea to them.

 

There are suggestions of licences and bag limits in the document as it stands. So rather than the current cries of foul against the very people trying to influence things for the best, it is time for all these concerned anglers to get their thumbs out of their backsides and do something about it when the actual consultation takes place; make their views known in an effective manner.

 

 

 

What you have out there in the real world Nick are ordinary people, not spoilt little kids, anglers with their thumbs up the backside's etc, don't forget many thousands of ordinaries who don't want to be governed while undertaking a hobby. It is you who are continually looking down at the normal people and their concerns, commenting on what you see as their lacking in your eyes. You are in a position of trust, scan excecutive and need learn how to deal with the ordinaries in such a way as to not insult them.

 

Cranfeild, please reconsider posting on this thread if it continues, your brill.

[nick]

No Barry, I am talking about a very small group of people that post on forums with those comments - not the vast majority of ordinary anglers out in the real world. I unlike many people do not pretend to know what the "ordinary anglers" want. All I would claim is to have an insight into what DEFRA will stiff them with if someone doesn't represent their interests. As far as I am aware the only thing that RSA reps are trying to achieve with representation at these meetings etc is to ameliorate the harm that would be done if it was left to DEFRA / Greens / Commercials were left to design a strategy for RSA, oh and if possible actually gain some real benefits for RSA too.

 

Tell me please, what is the hidden agenda of RSA reps at these meetings, 'cos so far I haven't been let into the secret?

 

I simply give MY own personal take on what is said on these forums.

[Ian Burrett]

I was wandering along Princes Parade, Hythe yesterday and there were two "old blokes" fishing near the Fishermans Beach end.

 

I made the usual, "anything happening ?" enquiry and they said that they had four decent flatfish in the bag.

They had also returned some undersized "bits and pieces".

 

I asked them what they thought about the possible sea licences and bag limits, that were rumoured to be on the way.

Neither had heard anything about them and asked how much the licence would be.

I said that I had no idea, but the freshwater one is £24.50, with a concession for over 65's, but I don't know what that is.

They both said that they wouldn't pay, "£20 odd a year to fish off the beach" and with the rise in the price of bait, tackle etc., they would just pack it in.

I told them that the idea was that steps would be taken to improve inshore fishing, in exchange for the licence fee and bag limits and their reply was unprintable, but along the lines of, "I don't believe that".

 

So, two old blokes meet up once a week in the better weather, fish off the beach and sit together nattering.

They return undersized fish and do little to deplete fish stocks, but they look destined to desert the sport.

 

I wonder how many more like them there will be ?

 

But, its all for the greater good............................isn't it ?

 

And did you ask them how has the fishing changed? Perhaps 30 years ago they wouldn't have been catching undersize fish to put back. Compared with then, the fishing is now dire with most species going into a decline.

 

You only have to look at the fishing reports round the coast. It seems the norm for a good shore day is perhaps 4-6 cod with a good one being 3-4 pounds. I used to fish Whitby in the 70's and you would get that many fish in two chucks. with a double or two in there as well.

 

Its knowing how the fishing should and could be, that drives anglers reps to negotiate with governments. OK that means much red tape and bureaucracy but the end result will justify the means.

[barry luxton]

No Barry, I am talking about a very small group of people that post on forums with those comments - not the vast majority of ordinary anglers out in the real world. I unlike many people do not pretend to know what the "ordinary anglers" want. All I would claim is to have an insight into what DEFRA will stiff them with if someone doesn't represent their interests. As far as I am aware the only thing that RSA reps are trying to achieve with representation at these meetings etc is to ameliorate the harm that would be done if it was left to DEFRA / Greens / Commercials were left to design a strategy for RSA, oh and if possible actually gain some real benefits for RSA too.

 

Tell me please, what is the hidden agenda of RSA reps at these meetings, 'cos so far I haven't been let into the secret?

 

I simply give MY own personal take on what is said on these forums.

 

 

Hi Nick this insight you have regarding defra, for all you know they might want it, on the other they might not. They might also not require representations, who knows.

 

I can't answer your second para as i'm not privy to any rsa rep agenda's

Edited March 11, 2007 by barry luxton

[nick]

Hi Nick this insight you have regarding defra, for all you know they might want it, on the other they might not. They might also not require representations, who knows.

 

Let me get this right then Barry, as I would hate to misunderstand what you are saying.

 

You are saying above that you believe that the whole RSA strategy idea is not coming from DEFRA (well the government, but through DEFRA). Is that your perspective?

 

If so please read the intro to the document.

 

I can assure you that the reason for the current discussion regarding an RSA strategy is not because Leon has asked for one. DEFRA are driving this, and they invite who they want to the table, if they didn't want representation there would be none!.

[Steve Coppolo]

Let me get this right then Barry, as I would hate to misunderstand what you are saying.

 

You are saying above that you believe that the whole RSA strategy idea is not coming from DEFRA (well the government, but through DEFRA). Is that your perspective?

 

If so please read the intro to the document.

 

I can assure you that the reason for the current discussion regarding an RSA strategy is not because Leon has asked for one. DEFRA are driving this, and they invite who they want to the table, if they didn't want representation there would be none!.

 

Nick

Try to get your facts right before telling everyone how it is.

[nick]

Nick

Try to get your facts right before telling everyone how it is.

 

meaning?