Homeopathy

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

It was only a conference Davy!

[DavyR]

It was only a conference Davy!

 

I know - I read it. I'm sorry if I'm not making myself clear. I was really responding to your claim that debate isn't possible because there are "too many closed minds". What people believe or don't believe (whether it's about health, religion, politics or anything else) is their own business, so long as they don't expect them to be funded out of the public purse if they're not considered to be justified by the evidence. That's the only point I wanted to make.

[Ken L]

It doesn't matter whether the issue under discussion is religion, reiki, homeopathy, cold fusion or the existance or otherwise of fairies at the bottom of the garden, people who demand some evidence before they believe in something are always accused of having "closed minds" by those that choose to believe but who are unable to provide a shred of testable evidence to support or bolster their beliefs.

 

The key to unlocking a closed mind is very small. It doesn't require evidence, it only needs a plausable hypothesis.

In the case of religion, reiki, homeopathy and fairies, they don't even come close to plausability but a lot of suposedly closed minds suddenly opened up and started evaluating the data a few years ago when "successful" cold fusion was anounced. As it happens, the claims were shown to be false, but that hardly invalidates the point.

 

Homeopathy is bunkum. Plain and simple. There may be thousands of people out there who attest to it's healing powers, but there are ten of thousands of people who would state that the medicines prescribed by doctors have cured them, even though those "medicines" have been placebo's.

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Like I said, closed minds!!!

 

The conference was about treating AIDS, yet not one of you has actually commented on THIS topic......you've just debunked the whole idea without even looking at it. Thats what makes your minds closed.

 

Ken, you are right, tens of thousands of people do indeed get better by taking placebos which means placebos (or the faith and hope they created) cured them. Homeopathy is dirt cheap compared to drugs and if people are cured by the faith and hope homeopathy creates alone then its worthwhile.

 

I'm not sure why either of you are so against the NHS supplying such a cheap treatment to people given the gross wastage of money that is the management structure! I'd rather ditch one of their managers and employ a homeopath instead, regardless of whether its a proven therapy or not.

[DavyR]

I'm not sure why either of you are so against the NHS supplying such a cheap treatment to people given the gross wastage of money that is the management structure!

 

Unfortunately, I don't get a say in how NHS money is spent. Believe me, if I did, a lot of unnecessary expenditure would be cut straight away. And a lot of vested interests would be seriously out of pocket, out of a job, and/or very unhappy. That includes a large chunk of the management structure as well as a lot of expenditure on drugs. I'd put the money saved into hospice care, so that nobody need die on a general hospital ward, if they didn't want to be there. There's plenty of good evidence that people want that, but only the lucky few benefit at present. It's a national disgrace that hospice care has to rely on charity.

 

I still wouldn't spend a penny of NHS money on homoeopathy, unless or until I saw convincing scientific evidence that it worked.

[Ken L]

Firstly Phill, I did read the BBC article and Post 114 did comment on it directly.

 

Secondly, it's ethicly reprehesable to give somebody something telling them that it will either cure them or alieviate their symptoms when it wont.

It fact, it's the sort of thing that only ever gets done by doctors conducting clinical trials or charlatans pedalling, and at least people recieving them in clinical trials know that they might be recieving the placebo.

If you're going to go down that road, you might as well save your homeopath's salary and get some bozo on minimum wage to sit in a consulting room handing out blue smarties for cancer, red for cardiomyopathy and yellow for renal failure.

 

I'm still not sure what your point is on this.

Do you actually believe that there is some tangable physical benefit to using homeopathy that isn't entirely reliant on a combination of the placebo effect and psychotherapy ?

or

Do you simply have a beef with the NHS and it's current funding and organisational structure ?

[barry luxton]

I have a frozen shoulder at present and in between hospital and doctors to be told can't really do a lot for you. Yet alternative medicine, Alexander technique and the Bowen technique say that they can cure it. the second one recons after three visits, paying of course. What's me chances.

[DavyR]

What's me chances.

 

Barry, frozen shoulder (adhesive capsulitis) usually gets better of its own accord, but can take 12-18 months to do so. In the meantime, there are various drug and non-drug approaches to reduce pain and inflammation, all of which (including acupuncture and Alexander Technique) work for some people. But they don't "cure" the condition, they just relieve the symptoms. Whatever treatment you're trying, if the condition resolves itself while you're having that treatment, the evidence of your own one-man randomised trial tells you that it works (which is why some people swear by certain treatments when they would have got better anyway).

Edited December 2, 2007 by DavyR

[barry luxton]

Barry, frozen shoulder (adhesive capsulitis) usually gets better of its own accord, but can take 12-18 months to do so. In the meantime, there are various drug and non-drug approaches to reduce pain and inflammation, all of which (including acupuncture and Alexander Technique) work for some people. But they don't "cure" the condition, they just relieve the symptoms. Whatever treatment you're trying, if the condition resolves itself while you're having that treatment, the evidence of your own one-man randomised trial tells you that it works (which is why some people swear by certain treatments when they would have got better anyway).

 

Second time i have gone through this. first time, acupuncture, phisio, six months, keyhole surgery, more phisio,two months, finally huge injection sorted it, no more problem on that one.

 

This time 3.5 months, nothing apart from inflammation tablets in the beginning, injection to reduce swelling, trying to stay away from painkillers. I want to try another cortisone injection but they won't let me near the man. I would also like to try a bone man, osteopath? spelling. Without any xray the first doc said tendons are torn, second said as you say the capsule. Can't work or fish properly at the mo. Quick fix needed. I have a mate who practises Alexander but i'm a bit reluctant.

[five bellies]

Second time i have gone through this. first time, acupuncture, phisio, six months, keyhole surgery, more phisio,two months, finally huge injection sorted it, no more problem on that one.

 

This time 3.5 months, nothing apart from inflammation tablets in the beginning, injection to reduce swelling, trying to stay away from painkillers. I want to try another cortisone injection but they won't let me near the man. I would also like to try a bone man, osteopath? spelling. Without any xray the first doc said tendons are torn, second said as you say the capsule. Can't work or fish properly at the mo. Quick fix needed. I have a mate who practises Alexander but i'm a bit reluctant.

 

 

Baz try holding your Beer in the other hand for a couple of weeks