Pub landlord gives 2 fingers to the smoking ban

[nick]

Nick, Why? you agree with my figures. I am not arguing for the sake of it, I just want to see fair play for EVERYBODY! I don't care whether they are Smokers or non-smokers, abled bodied or disabled. Why must anybody be treated differently if they are not the same as you?

 

Well it's always nice to have it acknowledged when you have done what someone asks. And also the figures whilst pointing at a similar number of smoking related cancer deaths do highlight that the total number of smoking related deaths is substantially higher than you were suggesting.

 

I am not and do not treat anyone different because they are different to me, and quite frankly I don't know what that statement is all about. Please clarify.

[kleinboet]

You are still in denial, you are a journalist, a wordsmith, who knows the power of a statement.

Your statement of a "few steps" evokes in people a picture of people stepping back a couple of paces.

You and I know different!! The difference is that those few paces could just as well have been a few miles. There's you, sitting smug and warm in the pub, and yet a few paces away people are standing in (possibly) sub-zero temperatures, all because they smoke and you don't.

You are 100% correct in the distance, but ethically!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I said, You insist you are a "compassionate man???

[nick]

You are still in denial, you are a journalist, a wordsmith, who knows the power of a statement.

Your statement of a "few steps" evokes in people a picture of people stepping back a couple of paces.

You and I know different!! The difference is that those few paces could just as well have been a few miles. There's you, sitting smug and warm in the pub, and yet a few paces away people are standing in (possibly) sub-zero temperatures, all because they smoke and you don't.

You are 100% correct in the distance, but ethically!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I said, You insist you are a "compassionate man???

 

But no-one is forcing anyone to walk miles, or even take a few steps to smoke. That is a choice made by the individual.

 

Perhaps we should also allow people to urinate where they sit if they cannot be bothered to take a short walk to the appropriate location for that?

[Wordbender]

As I said, You insist you are a "compassionate man???

 

Far too compassionate to accuse someone I don't know of regarding the death of an old man as 'good', in a pathetic attempt to score points. How about you?

 

You deal in fantasy and melodrama when trying to make your own points, yet ignore reality when that doesn't suit you. This is people going outside for a smoke when they visit a pub, for pity's sake, not some life or death mission!

 

You've been sussed, Kleinboet.

[kleinboet]

Wordbender I will try once again to explain to you that I can find NO just reason for denying a smoker a REASONABLE place to enjoy his habit. I do not smoke, however although I do not, I will not adopt this holier than thou attitude when smokers are being shafted!

It is the simplest thing to have smoking pubs (lets keep it at pubs, it may improve business for them) AND non-smoking pubs. An amendment to the law will be easy enough and thos smoking barmaids, meter readers etc would actually jump at the chance of working where they can actually smoke! We are not talking a few people here - although in the minority there are a lot of people who are "displaced" by this law. Yet you still insist that this should NOT happen!!

[nick]

Wordbender I will try once again to explain to you that I can find NO just reason for denying a smoker a REASONABLE place to enjoy his habit. I do not smoke, however although I do not, I will not adopt this holier than thou attitude when smokers are being shafted!

It is the simplest thing to have smoking pubs (lets keep it at pubs, it may improve business for them) AND non-smoking pubs. An amendment to the law will be easy enough and thos smoking barmaids, meter readers etc would actually jump at the chance of working where they can actually smoke! We are not talking a few people here - although in the minority there are a lot of people who are "displaced" by this law. Yet you still insist that this should NOT happen!!

 

The problem with what you suggest is that it is totally impractical to implement from a legislative point of view.

 

There are so many factors that need to be taken into account.

 

Your simplistic view is what gets in the way of accepting that the legislation is as it is because the alternative will not work.

 

Grow up and accept that it is not possible to have everything your own way in this life.

 

And just to be fair, I would be very happy to concede that you are correct if you can create a form of words to allow the above which would not be so full of holes that it could actually be enforced in law!

 

While I'm thinking on that subject, let's imagine one of your fantasy smoking pubs. It employs a young lady that smokes. She quite rightly stops smoking because it is very bad for pregnant women to smoke. Sack her? Pay her to stay at home? Give her 2 years maternity leave? That is one tiny example of the sort of problems that your fantasy scenario creates.

Edited January 27, 2008 by nick

[Wordbender]

Yet you still insist that this should NOT happen!!

 

When did I insist that, then? Come on, you failed to produce these 'lack of compassion' posts of mine, so let's have the 'insist it shouldn't happen' ones.

 

I have stated more than once that I'm in favour of smoking-only pubs and clubs. I have also given the Government's stance on the non-viability of these due to health and safety issues, and it's my opinion that they are not practically possible. However, I have not insisted that they shouldn't happen.

 

Over to you, Kleinboet.

[kleinboet]

Nick, go ahead and put "obstacles" in the way, My MP and I have sat at night and tried to find something that couldn't be overcome!

List them here by all means, I will TRY and knock them down for you!

[nick]

Nick, go ahead and put "obstacles" in the way, My MP and I have sat at night and tried to find something that couldn't be overcome!

List them here by all means, I will TRY and knock them down for you!

 

Well I've just added one.

 

It was my challenge to you, so off you go, draft a form of words suitable.

 

(hint - the parliamentary draftsmen didn't fancy the job)

[kleinboet]

Worbender: 1. Ideally, I'd like every decent person in the world to rid their lives of smoking, because it kills too many of them, but the ban in public places is plenty good enough for me.

 

Please don't tell me that you didn't say it - The inference is there!