Ethics?

[Grandma]

Add me to Anderloo, all makes good sense really...but especially the bit about caring more as we get older, well if that was that case Newt would be a dead ringer for Mother Theresa, but thankfully Den rather proves the point and dare I say me too.

 

Personally speaking, I don't 'care' more as I get older, but I like to think I'm more sensible and take reponsibility for my actions. Hence I no longer pull the legs off flies, but equally I don't care if one happens to die slowly after I've swatted it.

 

The decline of a persons hunting instinct with age has been mentioned and might be true in some cases. However, if anyone genuinely thinks they are becoming more caring with age, I'd suggest they take a good look at themselves, to make sure they're not just being smug!

 

Also it's usual in this day and age to have an irrational caring attitude to some types that of animals whilst not sparing a second thought to the animals that become products. It's an understandable attiutude, but you can't deny the hypocrisy.

 

Edit:

 

Beat me to it W.

Edited January 22, 2008 by Grandma

[Anderoo]

Also it's usual in this day and age to have an irrational caring attitude to some types that of animals whilst not sparing a second thought to the animals that become products. It's an understandable attiutude, but you can't deny the hypocrisy.

 

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more.

[mark barrett]

Ignored the correction on toss over the shoulder then? You do make assumptions KB, I should think I have seen every episode...sad but true.

 

i agree that he does not treat the fish the same as some others, and that does come across as a bit callous, but I dont know what your beef is with the high standards of fish welfare that we try and teach in this country, surely that is a good thing, not only is it good for fish stocks it puts angling in a positive light with the general public.

 

The fact they we as you put it molicoddle fish well if we do then will make up for the some that dont have the same standard of care. I dont see many anglers that are obsessive with fish care, merely follow a code of conduct.

 

Angling can ignore its image at its peril, the wider public are very sensitive to anything considered cruel to wildlife be it mammals or fish, you try explaining to Joe Public that placing a barbed hook through the eyes of a live fish is not cruel...I think you would have a job I really do.

 

We do not have a God given right to our sport, that right is granted to us by the politicians, so lets voluntarily ban such dubious practises before the politicians do it for us.

 

Rabbit,

 

i have read your rubbish on this and the other thread and had so far resisted the urge to post, because your kind of spurious nonsense has been written time and time before.

 

Firstly the little bit about hooking through both eyes is rubbish, and i suspect that you only put that there to get a rise, well i am biting. o one puts the hooks straight through both eyes of a livebait, because it would kill them and render them ineffective to the whole point of the method.

 

Another thing is that you state that the public are sensitive to cruel issues. No they are not. The public only become aware of the issue when there are media campaigns run with a slant intent on banning any such practice. If your assumption was correct, live baiting would have been banned many years ago, it hasnt, because if you asked 99% of the non fishing public what livebaiting was, they wouldnt know, or they would probably answer using a maggot or a worm. And you see there's where the crux lies. In amking such laws, there always becomes added definitions and the "hand wringers" like yourself amongst angling could very well end up getting things like maggots and worms struck off as bait too, after all what makes a fish any more worthy of life than a worm?

 

Most of the public dont give a toss about livebaiting, because they have no reason too. Only amongst our own ranks are there these "ethical dilemmas". if thats your case then by all means refrain from doing so, but dont try and decimate others pleasure and sport, just because it doesnt fit well with your "disney" like view of the countryside and fishing.

[Guest Rabbit]

Hypocrisy Not so sure , after all we the public are not aware of farming procedures and will willingly buy eggs and bacon without a second thought for the welfare of the creatures that make it possible.We have faith in the food industry in supplying the best conditions for the animals. To try and offset the argument of livebaiting vs eating meat or eggs is probably a bit desperate on the part of the pro live baiters.

 

Fact is livebaiting IS an issue with the public that is why many angling clubs now outlaw it, we have also Scotland and Ireland enforce the law through statute, even someone like Mark Barrett cannot deny that. And Mr B the hooking of a live fish through the eyes was admitted by none other than Newt, suggest you have a quick scan then!!

 

Shame you should resort to a rhetoric that is a bit bullying but is hardly surprising.

[Grandma]

The hook in the eye thing was based on Newt's post. I guess they do things differently in America, you can buy your livebaits in tackle shops for a start.

 

I've never heard a uk angler recommend it.

[Grandma]

Hypocrisy Not so sure , after all we the public are not aware of farming procedures and will willingly buy eggs and bacon without a second thought for the welfare of the creatures that make it possible.We have faith in the food industry in supplying the best conditions for the animals. To try and offset the argument of livebaiting vs eating meat or eggs is probably a bit desperate on the part of the pro live baiters.

 

That is precisely the hypocrisy I was refering too.

 

''We the public are not aware of farming procedures'' translates to ''We the public choose not to look too closely at farming procedures because we might not like what we find and we certainly haven't got any intention of doing the procedure ourselves''

 

Referring to the factory scale rearing, transportation, slaughtering and processing of animals as ''farming procedures'' and saying you are ''not aware'' but instead have faith in industry for supplying the best conditions for animals, illustrates how you are turning a blind eye to a potentially emotive subject. The reason you are doing this is because you benefit from the system. Conversely you do not benefit from another set of people using live bait. Hence it's a hypocritical view.

Edited January 22, 2008 by Grandma

[Anderoo]

That is precisely the hypocrisy I was refering too.

 

''We the public are not aware of farming procedures'' translates to ''We the public choose not to look too closely at farming procedures because we might not like what we find and we certainly haven't got any intention of doing the procedure ourselves''

 

Referring to the factory scale rearing, transportation, slaughtering and processing of animals as ''farming procedures'' and saying you are ''not aware'' but instead have faith in industry for supplying the best conditions for animals, illustrates how you are turning a blind eye to a potentially emotive subject. The reason you are doing this is because you benefit from the system. Conversely you do not benefit from another set of people using live bait. Hence it's a hypocritical view.

 

Yes. It's like people marching against fox hunting and then getting a KFC on the way home, feeling all smug and self-righteous, either vaguely aware but uncaring, or blissfully ignorant, that the chicken they're eating suffered far beyond what any fox has been through. But stopping treating themselves to the favourite food would directly affect them, wouldn't it? People amaze me sometimes.

 

I think it's a fair comparison. People in glass houses and all that. (I'm not a supporter of hunting, in case you were wondering.)

[gozzer]

Yes. It's like people marching against fox hunting and then getting a KFC on the way home, feeling all smug and self-righteous, either vaguely aware but uncaring, or blissfully ignorant, that the chicken they're eating suffered far beyond what any fox has been through. But stopping treating themselves to the favourite food would directly affect them, wouldn't it? People amaze me sometimes.

 

I think it's a fair comparison. People in glass houses and all that. (I'm not a supporter of hunting, in case you were wondering.)

 

Or even, Complaining about intensive chicken farming, but still supporting man made fisheries, stocked to an uhealthy level, for the benefit(?) of angling?

 

John.

[mark barrett]

Hypocrisy Not so sure , after all we the public are not aware of farming procedures and will willingly buy eggs and bacon without a second thought for the welfare of the creatures that make it possible.We have faith in the food industry in supplying the best conditions for the animals. To try and offset the argument of livebaiting vs eating meat or eggs is probably a bit desperate on the part of the pro live baiters.

 

Fact is livebaiting IS an issue with the public that is why many angling clubs now outlaw it, we have also Scotland and Ireland enforce the law through statute, even someone like Mark Barrett cannot deny that. And Mr B the hooking of a live fish through the eyes was admitted by none other than Newt, suggest you have a quick scan then!!

 

Shame you should resort to a rhetoric that is a bit bullying but is hardly surprising.

 

 

Rabbit,

 

what the yanks do or dont do is immaterial, we are talking about the british Isles and I have never seen that reccommended or in practice.

 

Bullying? I think not. What is bullying is enforcing your views upon others.

[Guest Rabbit]

Rabbit,

 

what the yanks do or dont do is immaterial, we are talking about the british Isles and I have never seen that reccommended or in practice.

 

 

Bullying? I think not. What is bullying is enforcing your views upon others.

 

Enforcing my views on others ? No

Just debating a subject thats all...its a forum where people debate things without sometimes feeling the need to Rubbish an opposing point of view. That would seem a reasonable starting point

So would you like to make a go of it?