Ethics?

[captain cojones]

Nope. It irritates me, too. Perhaps they should print these names on the side of fishfinger boxes and give us all a photo of the fish inside when it was alive and talking.

LMAO

[kleinboet]

In which case Rabbit, you haven't watched many of them. Yes he kisses them and then throws them back in the water, even from a pier or bridge. He has no landing net, either to land or to return his fish. We do, that is the point I am making. Yes he is using catch and return and no he is not molicoddling them like we do!

[rarepleasures]

To me the ethics of fishing is about looking after the country side, not leaving litter, not cutting down trees, not adding to pollution, etc. its not really to do with the individual fish themselves but their habitat. We have a duty as anglers to be conservationists where ever possible. Sadly too many anglers nowerdays don't see this as thier role and selfishly leave terrible litter.

 

I'm like Peter, I get far more worked up by the issue of 'anti-social' anglers (the litter-louts, the bankside drunks, the fixed riggers) than by the issue of live baiting.

[gozzer]

Some interesting posts on here, some telling what they are comfortable with, some fearing for the future of angling, and some just casting a bait for other members to take. Apart from Medwaygreen nobody has answered the question I asked, "What causes the changes in angling attitudes?"

One of the reasons I believe, (as mentioned by Capt C) is that the custom of 'humanising' animals, and giving them emotions and credit for reasoning as a human would. In my experience fish are not clever, cunning, sly etc, any more than polar bears are cute or cuddly. Fish react to their surroundings and the stimuli it contains. Instinct makes them react to unusual events. Their basic existence relies on two things, surviving and breeding, they have to eat to survive, (luckily for anglers), and they produce fry in such numbers that they have a good chance of reaching breeding age. They have a place in the scheme of things as do all living things.

IMO, Any emotions, feelings, or reasoning that they are credited with, says more about the human imagination than it does about the fish themselves.

 

Disney and co have a lot to answer for.

 

John.

[poledark]

Gozzer, I will try to answer your question (I always do ) I have discussed this issue at great length on the bank this last week.

 

Guys of all ages from 28 to 76. The older ones, some who used to shoot as well as fish (myself included) have given up shooting and would also not livebait. Younger guys could not understand the problem we had, (but none of them were shooters, just anglers)

 

So maybe it is an age thing.

 

But then it is not that simple (for me and one other). We both trout fished a lot, he as a profesional (fly tier/ author) and we both experienced the sudden distate for trout. Both of us found we were unable to eat them without "heaving". I still do when I clean one for the wife (shop bought)

 

This had nothing to do with age, it happened to us both in our late 30's

 

One of the nearly olduns (late 50's) a real hardened piker, will use any method he thinks will catch a pike...even to fishing rods in 3 different swims. Now I could read a lot in to that attitude, hopefully he doesn't kill many pike.

 

Ethics? morality? simply "going soft"? I don't know the answer, but I can say this with real feeling, the older I get, the more I marvel at this planet we live on and the beauty and complexity of the life upon it. Fishing involves me in that complexity,

Den

[jason.p]

To my mind the ethics or morals of fishing are very much an individual concept. No one can pretend that fishing is good for the fish, so we all start from a position of possible "political incorrectness".

My own way of looking at it is to examine my own motivation to go fishing. I don't set out with the intention of killing as many fish as I can, or indeed killing or unnecessarily harming any, it's the thrill of the chase, and using skill, patience, perseverance etc to succeed, and so long as I can justify this to myself, then it's fine.

Of course, when fishing someone else's water you have to abide by their rules, however stupid they may seem, but that is another issue, as with society at large.

I totally agree that the all pervasive political correctness has been creeping into our sport for some time now, and in some cases is beginning to stifle it.

Of course fish welfare is important, that's only common sense, but to all anglers, the fish are there to be caught, and in the case of commercials have been put there to be caught.

So lets not get bogged down by the over zealous PC brigade, examine your own conscience and do what you think is right (provided it's in the rules)

[Elton]

Ethics? morality? simply "going soft"? I don't know the answer, but I can say this with real feeling, the older I get, the more I marvel at this planet we live on and the beauty and complexity of the life upon it. Fishing involves me in that complexity,

Den

 

Den

 

I can relate to that and maybe, just maybe, I'll be a soft sod like you when I'm older

 

I used to shoot everything with my air rifle as a kid. Didn't matter what type of bird it was, really, as long as I could kill it. I couldn't do that now - if I had to shoot any animal in the UK, it would be for food or vermin control only. Abroad, it would be if it was snarling and coming at me at a rate of knots!

 

With fishing, I have my own boundaries, as do many, I suppose. I let others sort their own issues out.

 

One thing that has crossed my mind as I've been reading this thread....I'd hate to take a lot of people on here boat fishing. The things we do to peeler crabs

[Guest Rabbit]

In which case Rabbit, you haven't watched many of them. Yes he kisses them and then throws them back in the water, even from a pier or bridge. He has no landing net, either to land or to return his fish. We do, that is the point I am making. Yes he is using catch and return and no he is not molicoddling them like we do!

 

Ignored the correction on toss over the shoulder then? You do make assumptions KB, I should think I have seen every episode...sad but true.

 

i agree that he does not treat the fish the same as some others, and that does come across as a bit callous, but I dont know what your beef is with the high standards of fish welfare that we try and teach in this country, surely that is a good thing, not only is it good for fish stocks it puts angling in a positive light with the general public.

 

The fact they we as you put it molicoddle fish well if we do then will make up for the some that dont have the same standard of care. I dont see many anglers that are obsessive with fish care, merely follow a code of conduct.

 

Angling can ignore its image at its peril, the wider public are very sensitive to anything considered cruel to wildlife be it mammals or fish, you try explaining to Joe Public that placing a barbed hook through the eyes of a live fish is not cruel...I think you would have a job I really do.

 

We do not have a God given right to our sport, that right is granted to us by the politicians, so lets voluntarily ban such dubious practises before the politicians do it for us.

Edited January 20, 2008 by Rabbit

[Newt]

Rabbit - while Den & I hold diametrically opposed feelings on live baiting and have expressed those, we respect each other.

 

I think most, if not all, on here hold similar views on handling fish we intend to release although the reasons probably differ. For me personally, I want them available for my future sport and the future sport of other anglers and I really prefer not to see other anglers taking too many specimen fish away from the gene pool.

 

Most of what I am reading from you indicates your 'ethics' consist mostly of worry about what others think of your/our actions rather than from any internal sense of what you feel is right or wrong even if that might vary from what others think.

 

I'm not sure that sort of reasoning exactly gives you the high moral ground you seem to assume you are standing on.

[Grandma]

Have we brought about the ‘ethical’ changes for the benefit of the fish, our own consciences, or to appease the general public?

The vastly over stocked fisheries and mass introduction of alien species, rule out the fish option for me.

 

Great posts John, I agree with your points and would like to add my bit about appeasing the general public.

 

Ethical changes to appease the general public are potentially a minefield and should be avoided. I think we have to remember that our sport is ultimately centered around the abuse of fish. Angling is only allowed to continue because of the number of people doing it and because our quarry is 'only fish'.

 

I'm very wary therefore of anglers who are encouraging legitimate methods to be banned on grounds of cruelty, but are equally willing to justify their own methods. Livebaiting is a small but important part of angling. The fact it's practised by comparitively few makes it a convenient target. I don't want to become a criminal because of legislation bought in on the back of hypocrisy.