Alien invaders

[norfolkfisher]

I would love to see more species introduced into landlocked waters, just for the diversity and have something different to fish for. But at the end of the day alien species always have a way of getting out.

[gozzer]

Who is "we" Cory? I have no problem with cats or carp or any other fish that has been stocked/moved/introduced. All grist to the mill for me as an allround (well rounded) angler.

 

How many of "US" would bother fishing if ponds and lakes and pits were only stocked with "English" fish? Roach/Rudd/Bream/Perch and Pike..........maybe a Gudgeon or two? Much as I love Roach, I wouldn't want to be restricted to what I had when I was a kid.

 

Den

 

 

I think we've been here before Den.

 

I for one would love to fish a stillwater that was the way it was when I was a kid. Or should I say that I would like the choice of fishing one?

That's the problem I have with the present situation, the lack of choice.

 

It's not so much the introduction of some species into 'landlocked' waters, (although I do think that it's too often done without enough research), it's the volume in which they are stocked that's the main thing. That, plus many of the waters that are stocked in this way, are on flood plains, and as such are more likely to have escapees into a river system.

As I said in an earlier post, the carp don't have to have many successful spawning years to cause a problem. The shear weight of numbers see's to that.

 

In my neck of the woods alone, the east of the county is riddled with this type of fishery. All within the flood plains of the rivers Hull and Derwent, and subsequently the Rivers Ouse and Trent systems.

There are gravel pits at the side of the river Wharfe that have had massive injections of carp, and when I say next to the river, I mean under 20yds in places. The Wharfe has always been a river prone to flooding, so it's inevitable that fish will transfer from one to the other.

The only rivers where I haven't heard of carp coming from are the Swale, and the Nidd, the rest throw up carp fairly regularly. At the moment they seem to be localised, but I don't think that will last.

I can't see how anyone would think that the introduction of large numbers of a species, (especially one as invasive as carp), would not have a detrimental effect on the balance of fish present. One or more species are going to suffer.

In my opinion, any angler that thinks that the introduction of a species in this way, and still thinks that one of the main roles in angling, is to act as 'caretaker' to the ecosystems of our water, is either a hypocrite, or greatly misguided.

That thinking is not about the welfare of the fisheries, but only about 'what's in it for the angler'.

 

 

John.

[Steve Burke]

........As a result I had no option but to stock pike after just 5 years. It wasn't a problem on the Carp Lake as it contains very few carp and has always held a large head of predators........

 

That of course should read Coarse Lake. I've now corrected the mistake.

[Guest tigger]

It's wierd how Carp fry over here seem to have problems with the winter and yet the carp in freezing Russia (the volga delta I think, spelt wrong of course) of all places actually thrive in such big quantities that they actually net them with trawlers for the table. I was watching an old Kevin ________s dvd the other day where he was after wells catfish which where also there in abundance.

Edited October 23, 2008 by tigger

[Dick Dastardly]

It's wierd how Carp fry over here seem to have problems with the winter and yet the carp in freezing Russia (the volga delta I think, spelt wrong of course) of all places actually thrive in such big quantities that they actually net them with trawlers for the table. I was watching an old Kevin ________s dvd the other day where he was after wells catfish which where also there in abundance.

 

 

Tigger,its not got anything to do with the extremes of the cold in winter.Maybe the way I worded it has left it unclear and easily misinterpreted.

 

In lot of European countries (mainly due to them being affected by "continental" as in continental land mass rather than continent=europe rather than our "oceanic" system) they not only have much colder (in general) winters but much (in general again) warmer summers.This means that the conditions for the carp to breed come about every year without fail and also at a time of year that allows enough time for the fry to grow and reach the right age/size to over winter.Some of these countries (especially those more inland to the East), Czechoslovakia being one I have personal experience with have quite short summers and much longer and harder winters than we do.BUT the short summer is much hotter.As well as enabling the carp to spawn at the right time (ie very soon after the "summer" comes the water warms up enough to trigger spawning)the same conditions obviopusly enable everything else to grow in a much (compared to the UK) magnified proportion.This in turn gives the fry amp0le food to eat to be able to survive the longer colder winter.

 

Remember its from these countries that carp came.Therefore evolution has created/developed their whole existance/reproduction around these conditions.Bring em here and they are (no pun intended!) fish out of water!

 

Do you know the difference in spawning cycles/stimulus for carp compared with indigenous cyprinids?

[Guest tigger]

Tigger,its not got anything to do with the extremes of the cold in winter.Maybe the way I worded it has left it unclear and easily misinterpreted.

 

In lot of European countries (mainly due to them being affected by "continental" as in continental land mass rather than continent=europe rather than our "oceanic" system) they not only have much colder (in general) winters but much (in general again) warmer summers.This means that the conditions for the carp to breed come about every year without fail and also at a time of year that allows enough time for the fry to grow and reach the right age/size to over winter.Some of these countries (especially those more inland to the East), Czechoslovakia being one I have personal experience with have quite short summers and much longer and harder winters than we do.BUT the short summer is much hotter.As well as enabling the carp to spawn at the right time (ie very soon after the "summer" comes the water warms up enough to trigger spawning)the same conditions obviopusly enable everything else to grow in a much (compared to the UK) magnified proportion.This in turn gives the fry amp0le food to eat to be able to survive the longer colder winter.

 

Remember its from these countries that carp came.Therefore evolution has created/developed their whole existance/reproduction around these conditions.Bring em here and they are (no pun intended!) fish out of water!

 

Do you know the difference in spawning cycles/stimulus for carp compared with indigenous cyprinids?

 

 

Thank's for that Budgie I see what your saying. It's funny how the common carp of old do ok or did when the Monks yoused to eat them.

[Dick Dastardly]

The monks didnt tend to keep them in vast open gravel pits though! They over winter quite happily on any water that is sheltered. And the small monastry ponds the monks farmed them in were obviously sheltered.This doesnt mean that carp cant breed sucsessfully and grow on in waters just that its not such a forgon conclussion as it is with indigenous cyprinids.

[Guest tigger]

The monks didnt tend to keep them in vast open gravel pits though! They over winter quite happily on any water that is sheltered. And the small monastry ponds the monks farmed them in were obviously sheltered.This doesnt mean that carp cant breed sucsessfully and grow on in waters just that its not such a forgon conclussion as it is with indigenous cyprinids.

 

 

 

There yoused to be a monastry just local to me, Henry the eighth destroyed it but the monks carp lake is still there and still fished today. As you say it is sheltered by trees. I think the pond is about 2/3 acres in size.

[Dick Dastardly]

Yes they all seem to be around this size and often quite shallow.

[lutra]

Who is "we" Cory? I have no problem with cats or carp or any other fish that has been stocked/moved/introduced. All grist to the mill for me as an allround (well rounded) angler.

 

How many of "US" would bother fishing if ponds and lakes and pits were only stocked with "English" fish? Roach/Rudd/Bream/Perch and Pike..........maybe a Gudgeon or two? Much as I love Roach, I wouldn't want to be restricted to what I had when I was a kid.

 

Den

Well from this allround anglers point of view, its starting to look a little selfish and sad. Selfish in so much as there is just about no consideration given to anglers that don't wish to have carp in every water. Sad that there are so many anglers in our sport now that may never learn any other water craft than sitting on a known water/peg or any skills that require them to use their own head.